census help

[hg]

Hi Andrewp,

Thank you for the links regarding poorhouses in Edinburgh.

regards

Helen

[Jack]

Hi Helen,
Some idle thoughts that have crossed a confused mind...
--
Is there proof that Rosina's maiden surname is definitely Higgins?
I know son William says on his 1855 MC that's what it is - wrong info on MCs isn't unknown.
On William's 1903 DC his widow Jane Dawson says it's Ferrier.
But DCs, as you know, can also be wrong...more so when the informant isn't related.
--
The wording of Rosina's 1855 DC puzzles me somewhat...

Rosina Higgins or McHendry.
Parents Not Known.
Husband John McHendry.

If her maiden surname was Higgins, then why was she not recorded as,

Rosina McHendry,
Parents _____ Higgins & _____ Higgins m/s _____ .
Husband John McHendry.
--
Did hubby John McHendry die well before 1841...
...and Rosina lived with John Higgins as his wife for a number of years?
(the 40 yr old John on the 1841 census?)
And after he died she just continued to use the name everyone knew her as - Mrs Higgins?
Son William knew that he was a "McHendrie" from at least 1845 (when he married 1st wife Mary Cleland).
--
I can't find DCs for Rosina's daurs Mary & Janet.
Was hoping they might've shown their mother's maiden name.
--
I know it's possibly a bit far fetched...but stranger things happen!
Jack - still

[hg]

Hello Jack,

mmmmmm, very confusing!!!!!!!

The answer to your questions are I dont know.

I have not been able to find a dc for Rosina's James/John Mchendrie.

I have a distant relative in Australia who I did not know about until I started my family research. She has an old peice of paper with Rosina's surname as Higgins.

I must say the Ferrier did throw me.

I am not even sure if Rosina in the 1841 census is mine.

I did have a look for Mary and Jane, but at this moment in time I do not know if either of them married and if they did what their surnames were.

Thank you very much for your thoughts though. Keep them coming if you like.

many thanks

Helen

[hg]

Hi Jack,

Some more thoughts on Rosina.

I have just checked Williams marriage certificate to his first wife Mary and it shows they were married in 1845 guess what her address is, yes, 85 Grassmarket. William however is residing at Thornybank and his employment is a boatman. Mary's father is William Cleland. he is a blacksmith at Quarry Close 26 Croftscauseway? (wonder if that is Edinburgh)

I think the 1841 census is my Rosina and William and I think it was probably william who gave the information which would explain 'mother'.

I wonder if John is perhaps a relative of Rosina's from Ireland!

thank you for your help.

Helen

[AndrewP]

I have just checked Williams marriage certificate to his first wife Mary and it shows they were married in 1845 guess what her address is, yes, 85 Grassmarket. William however is residing at Thornybank and his employment is a boatman. Mary's father is William Cleland. he is a blacksmith at Quarry Close 26 Croftscauseway? (wonder if that is Edinburgh)

Thornybauk is about half a mile west of the Grassmarket, in the Tollcross area, close to the end of the Union Canal (presumably where he was employed as a boatman).

Go to http://www.nls.uk/maps/townplans/edinburgh500.html and select the south-west section.
In that section, select sheet III, 11, 4 (near the north-east corner).
On sheet III, 11, 4 click on the north-west corner to find Thornybauk.

Quarry Close is off West Crosscauseway, about half a mile south-east of the Grassmarket.

Go to http://www.nls.uk/maps/townplans/edinburgh500.html and select the south-east section.
In that section, select sheet III, 12, 1 (near the north-west corner).
On sheet III, 12, 1 click on the north-east corner to find West Crosscauseway and Quarry Close.

Go to http://www.nls.uk/maps/townplans/edinburgh500.html and select the south-west section.
In that section, select sheet III, 7, 20 (in the north-east corner).
On sheet III, 7, 20 click on the south-west corner to find the Grassmarket.

All the best,

AndrewP

[hg]

Thanks Andrewp.

You are always able to send me really good links for the information I am looking for. And, so early in the morning.

I come from Edinburgh and spent a lot of time at my Grandparents who lived in Glen Street in Tollcross but I have never heard of Thornybauk.

As for Crosswauseway, I have never heard of that either but after I sent my message last night I had a look on Google map, and there it was.

Needless to say I have heard of the Grassmarket.

all the best

Helen

[AndrewP]

Hi Helen,

I come from Edinburgh and spent a lot of time at my Grandparents who lived in Glen Street in Tollcross but I have never heard of Thornybauk.

If you turned left out of the top of Glen Street, down Lauriston Place and straight over into West Tollcross (road layout not as shown on the 1890s map), you would come to Thornybauk. Depending on your age (I won't ask), that would be just past the tram/bus depot, or later the car park, or for about the last 20 years the "new" fire station. I was on foot past the top of Glen Street about an hour ago, after attending the Blood Donor Centre (my good deed for the day).

Needless to say I have heard of the Grassmarket.

I take it you were never a student in Edinburgh. Otherwise you would have known all the pubs from one end to the other of the Grassmarket. I remember them well.

All the best,

AndrewP

[hg]

Hi Andrew,

I was never a student in Edinburgh but I do know the pubs in the grassmarket and have drunk in a fair few myself.

Helen

[killearnan]

Yes, I did see that Rosina but I did not think she was mine. John is only 10 years younger than Rosina and the age of William did not tie in with mine.

To add another wrinkle as you are piecing this together: a reminder that - as fluid as ages can be on the census in any year - they are particularly open to interpretation in 1841, when ages were supposed to be rounded down for adults to numbers ending in 0 or 5.

I've found several cases where a parent and adult child look like they are only 10 years apart in the 1841 census but the age difference turned out to be 18 or 20 years.....parent in late 40s shaved a year or three off, getting down to (say) 44, which then gets rounded down to 40.....while the 28 yo child is listed at 30 because the sibling/niece/etc. answering the question is estimating.

I've also found cases where spouses were only 2 to 5 years apart in age but the combination of fudging/rounding/informant guessing makes it look like 10, 15 or more...........

[hg]

I have just checked Williams marriage certificate to his first wife Mary and it shows they were married in 1845 guess what her address is, yes, 85 Grassmarket.

I think the 1841 census is my Rosina and William and I think it was probably william who gave the information which would explain 'mother'.

I wonder if John is perhaps a relative of Rosina's from Ireland!

Helen

Hi Killearnan,

I have prettty much come to the conclusion that Rosina and Wiliam are the ancestors I am looking for. I am a bit dubious about John though. She could have had him before she came to Scotland from Ireland. Working it out using the information you have pointed out would have made Rosina 13 years old when she had him, could be possible I suppose. I think it is more likely he is a relative.

thank you

helen