census help please

[speleobat2]

Here's another possibility:

1871 Scotland Census 1871 Scotland Census
Name: Ann Flanagan
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : John Flanagan
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Registration Number: 646/3
Registration district: Partick
Civil parish: Govan
Town: Partick
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 64 Bridge St
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 176
Line: 19
Roll: CSSCT1871_144
Household Members: Name Age
John Flanagan 58
Ann Flanagan 39


The age is off for John, but on for Ann. Thomas could have been with relatives in either Ireland or Scotland. You would have to look at the original to check John's age given the problems of transcription errors.

Carol

[crayspond]

Hi Carol,

Firstly thanks for taking the time to look for me - you are too kind


I wonder if you could look at this entry for me - I have went further back to the 1851 census as i thought with Ireland's problems during the famine why would he wait so long to leave. I put in the second name as Ann and it came back with the below


1 1851 FLANAGAN JAMES M 28 BARONY GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 622/00 049/00 029
2 1851 FLEMINGTON JAMES M 6 BOTHWELL /LANARK 625/00 003/00 006

The first one is looking good as i have his DOB est at 1825 - maybe it is him!!

Ailsa

[WilmaM]

Freecen has this which matches your 1st one:
Piece: SCT1851/622 Place: Barony -Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 6
Civil Parish: Anderston Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 578 Page: 29 Schedule: 108
Address: 48 Clyde Street
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
FLANAGAN James Head M M 28 Blacksmith Journeyman Bute - Rothesay
FLANAGAN Ann Wife M F 26 Lanarkshire - Glasgow
FLANAGAN Thomas Son U M 6 Scholar Lanarkshire - Glasgow
FLANAGAN Ann Dau U F 3 Lanarkshire - Glasgow
FLANAGAN Christina Dau U F 11m Lanarkshire - Glasgow

[crayspond]

Thanks Wilma,

I had a good look in FreeCen - it is a good site depending on the year you look . Back to the drawing board!

Ailsa

[crayspond]

Hi folks
Reviving this old brick wall today. I am now inclined to think there was a big age gap between James and Ann Flannigan which has thwarted me all these years. More to follow.

[crayspond]

James and Ann Flannigan

I am trying to make an effort to trace my gg grandparents back to Ireland but as you can see from this thread it was difficult to find any info on whereabouts in Ireland they were from. The only breakthrough came with the sister of James Flannigan - Elizabeth Passmore - she and her family were regular visitors to the Flannigans. Elizabeth married Joseph Passmore and i found out from their son's birth certificate Cormick in 1868 (High Church) Glasgow that they were married 27th April 1850 in Donegall Ireland. Also on another child's birth certificate from an Irish site Elizabeth Passmore 22nd April 1864. The address is Brook St Omagh County Tyrone.
It's only through this information that i am assuming the Flannigans also come from this area in Ireland. I have trawled Irish records and can't find any marriage for James and Ann or a birth for Thomas.
I started to look back over my file and noticed on James's death certificate on 2/9/1898 that he is aged 55.(It is very clearly 55) This would make him born in 1843. Ann died on 26/3/1882 also 55. That makes her born in 1827. Their son Thomas is 22 on the 1881 census in Govan Glasgow. Ann would be approx 32 when he was born but James only 16 !!
It now makes me think various James Flannigans that were looked at and dismissed as the wrong age may have been correct.
If anyone has any ideas please feel free to help me !!
Thanks,

[Elwyn 1]

Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church so if Elizabeth Flanagan married Joseph Passmore in Donegal Town in 1850, then that may be where she lived. Unfortunately the RC parish for Donegal town (RC parish of Tawnawilly) doesn’t have any marriage records before 1873, so if that’s where they married, you won’t find any record of it.

Passmore is not a common name in Ireland. In the 1901 census there were only 25 and several of them were born in England or Scotland. None in Donegal in 1901 save for 1 family from Devon who worked for the Coastguard. Most of the others lived in Co. Armagh. None in Tyrone. I see from the 1864 birth certificate that Joseph was a dealer. That tended to be a peripatetic occupation. Tricky to trace such families.

But if James Flanagan married Ann Kearnan in Donegal in the 1850s, then it’s unlikely that any documentary record exists. Statutory birth registration only began in Ireland in 1864 so for Thomas’s birth c 1859 you need to rely on church baptism records. If the birth was in Donegal then you face the same problem as with the marriage. The parish doesn’t have any records for that period. (Hardly any parishes in the whole county have any records before the 1860s. It clearly wasn’t seen as a priority).

If James & Ann had any children born in Scotland in 1855 or 1861 onwards, the date and place of their marriage should be recorded on the children’s birth certificates.

[crayspond]

Hi Elwyn1,
Nice to see you again. You have helped me out in the past with your excellent knowledge of Ireland. I hope you are keeping well.
I did pay for information from rootsireland.ie last year and only came up with a civil birth record of Elizabeth Passmore born 22/4/1864 to Elizabeth Flannaghan and Joseph Passmore. Address Brook St Omagh. On Emerald ancestors Francis Passmore baptism 7/71857 Dromore Roman Catholic Church. Father Joseph Passmore.
I have just been reading about the lack of records in some parts of Ireland - Donegal being one of them . It's ironic that i have details of the Passmores and their offspring but hardly anything about the Flannigans. Thomas is my gt grandfather and i know all about him. I'm wondering if he was the youngest in the family as it seems unusual for there only to be one child. I will plod on with trying to find some more children of the elusive James and Ann! Thanks for the help.

I

[AndrewP]

Hi Ailsa,

The online IGI shows records of three children to Joseph Passmore and Elizabeth Flannigan (various spellings).

• Elizabeth Passmore . . . . 22 April 1864 . . . . Omagh, Tyrone
• Thomas Passmore . . . . 14 Feb 1866 . . . . Glasgow (Clyde registration district)
• Cormick Passmore . . . . 04 May 1868 . . . . Glasgow (High Church registration district)

On looking up Cormick Passmore in the 1871 census, you find the Glasgow household of Joseph and Eliza with 8 children with ages from 20 down to 3; five born in Ireland, one in England and two in Glasgow. In the 1881 census, Joseph and Elizabeth are there with the youngest four of their eight children with ages from 20 down to 13.

The ages of the children would match well with an 1850 marriage for the parents.

I was using Corm*ck (Cormick / Cormack) for my searches. Seems like he died aged 18 in a coal mining accident; the informant was a neighbour, who looks to have given the wrong maiden surname for Eliza. This was corrected on the RCE.

All the best,

AndrewP

[crayspond]

Hi Andrew P, Nice to see an old face Think we had crossed lines there. As you can see i have more info on the Passmores which is good but doesn't help me find her brother James. I am sure there are more Flannigans in Scotland somewhere!