Australian Convict Records Online

[StewL]

OOOPS

I must have had a bit of a senior moment when I did a preliminary search on NSW BMD's

How I confused John and George, well we wont go into that will we

[scooter]

Hi All,

Many thanks for your help.

Trish - Would you happen to know what info might be in the convict bank accounts?

I'm certainly going to get hold of copies of that, and the cert of Freedom.

Do you know what the 1f means after Status: M. 1 Female?

Thanks again for all your help,

Scott

[trish1]

Hi All,

Many thanks for your help.

Trish - Would you happen to know what info might be in the convict bank accounts?

I'm certainly going to get hold of copies of that, and the cert of Freedom.

Do you know what the 1f means after Status: M. 1 Female?

Thanks again for all your help,

Scott

Hi Scott

I only know what is in the description online, so not much help. My convict ancestors went to Tasmania, so I have never accessed any of the NSW records - sorry.

I could only guess at the Status - Married - 1 female child?

Trish

[Currie]

If you search for John Wish* on NSW Deaths you'll find

284/1868, WISHHART JOHN, AGE ABOUT 50 YEARS, DIED SYDNEY, SYDNEY

There's also a marriage

V1851478 37B/1851, WISHART JOHN J W, CAMERON AGNES, MJ
(MJ = Church of England - Canbury (Almost certainly Canberra), Lake George, Queanbeyan)

There's a reference to John Joseph Wiseman Wishart/Agnes Cameron on this site

http://www.clan-cameron.org.au/getperso ... e=cameron1

Alan

[scooter]

Thanks Alan,

the death might be my man, however I think the marriage is for a John Wishart from Edinburgh, who was transported about the same time and went under the pseudonym of John Wiseman (Wishart).

I've ordered a few records from the NSW archives in the hope that they might reveal some further information.

Best,

Scott

[scooter]

Hi Alan,

I sent for a copy of the death certificate you mentioned, and at first glance it doesn't look as if he's my man. This John was unfortunately found floating in Sydney Cove, aged about 50 (mine would have been in his 70's) and an Engineer by profession. I'm not ruling him out altogether, however there are other avenues to explore first.

To date I've seen copies of the Certificate of Freedom (lots of interesting descriptive content on appearance) Ticket of Leave, Ships Indent/Musters, Convict Bank Accounts and his trial papers from the Central Criminal Court (Minutes of Evidence were the most interesting).

I had a look at the Australian Vital Records CD at the LDS in London, and wondered if the Pioneer Index would hold any more info? Outwith an individual listed in 1894, I can't see any other suitable candidates who died in Australia during this period from the AVRI.

If you have any other thoughts about where I should look next I'd be grateful.

Very best,

Scott

[Currie]

Hello Scott,

As far as I know the Pioneer index 1788 – 1888 is exactly the same as what’s online at NSW BDM.

John Wishart appears on this list http://bengal.liah.org/bengal1838.html

With that name you would think he would be easier to pin down. You seem to have a fair bit of info on him up to the point of his Certificate of Freedom in 1844 when he disappeared off the radar.

He had served his full 7 year term and I assume would have been free to travel anywhere he wished. He may have returned to Scotland depending on where his interests were and whether he had the funds to finance such a trip, and Mr Wishart had a bank account apparently accessible only on release. He may have headed off to California looking for gold in 1849 as cross Pacific travel was fairly accessible. He might even have gone to New Zealand.

Was there any evidence that his wife(s) came to Australia with him in 1838 apart from that bit of code on the Ancestry record or were there any Scottish census records for his wife(s) subsequent to 1844 to suggest that he had not returned to them. I suppose some marriages can be resumed after a 7 year separation, depending on the circumstances.

If a spouse did come to Australia is there any chance of tracking her down?

Just a few random thoughts.

All the best,
Alan

[scooter]

Hi Alan,

Many thanks for your email, your thoughts RE: California and New Zealand are interesting, and well worth exploring. Of course I suppose it may have been possible that he died unrecorded? To date I've found no evidence that either his wive(s) came to Australia, or that he returned to the UK. His last two bigamous marriages were in England, when he was working in Clerkenwell, London. The last wife (and the one I suspect he had a female child with) was a witness at his trial having only been married to him four months. I looked at the petitions for clemency to see if anyone cared enough about him to want to keep him around, but with no success. To date I have him married to at least three people (my GGGG Grandmother the first) and if he did return to Scotland he probably died before 1855. When he gained freedom he had a convict bank warrant for £2, which I imagine wasn't enough to get back to the UK?

Frustratingly his first wife and family upped sticks sometime after 1826 (probably when John left for London) and moved to Fife and I'm pretty sure they'd be on the 1841 census returns for Kirkcaldy - if they had survived. In 1851 his first wife Helen is living in Dundee with her daughter, and claiming she is widowed. Oddly enough, with the exception of my GGG Grandfather, none of John's children with Helen name their son's John, and in fact, his daughters Helen & Margaret seem very unsure as to who their father was. There is evidence to support the fact that he may have had a relationship with another woman in Scotland before heading south where in the marriage banns for his first wedding in 1833 he claims he is a widower, but then on the day, a bachelor. Three years later he is a widower again, and subsequently was rumbled.

I found a death for a John Wishart in New South Wales in 1894 which is not on the AVRI. It seems unlikely that he lived to his nineties, but perhaps not impossible. The mother's forename would fit with the possible parentage I have for John. I've ordered the certificate to rule this person out. Would Death Certificates be created posthumously?

Anyway, I'm rambling now!

Best and thanks again,

Scott

[trish1]

The AVRI covers the BDM records for NSW VIC TAS and WA for the periods specified - they all end at a slightly different time NSW I think 1888, Tas 1899, Vic 1888 and WA 1905. I cannot see a possible John Wishart death on these records.

Just to mention, if you intend to keep buying NSW certificates have you seen the information on the bdm site re transcription agents - they are somewhat cheaper & although it is too late for your latest purchase, they will check items for a reduced fee & only charge the full fee if the certificate meets your criteria. They also provide information by email & are usually faster than the registry - but they do not all have online payment facilities - I think at least one of them has this.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory ... ptionAgent

Looking at the index for the death you found in 1894, I would hazard a guess that this may be a child. There is a John Wishart born Cowra 1892 mother Helen. Cowra and Young are both Western NSW towns about 70km apart. It will be nice if I am wrong.

Records for Queensland until 1914 are online - http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/bdm/IndexSearch.htm#
The other missing areas are SA and NT but I doubt he travelled too far. I do think it is most likely that there is not an official record of his death if he died in Australia. NSW civil registration started about 1856.

Trish

[Currie]

Back again Scott,

Trish raised a good point about the transcription agents, I haven’t used them myself but I don’t think they were around when I was chasing NSW certificates.

When the Australian Newspapers Digitisation Program gets established it will probably help to solve problems like this one.

I located an entry you may not have seen in the London Times under the name Weshart – see transcription below.

LONDON TIMES 3 December, 1836
HATTON-GARDEN.—On Tuesday last, it will be recollected, that John Weshart was charged at this office, by Miss Jane Abbott, with having committed an assault of a violent nature, when he was ordered to find bail.
Miss Abbott subsequently attended at the office, and stated her determination to prefer a charge of bigamy against the prisoner, he having intermarried with her and several other females, his first wife being still living.
Mr. ROGERS informed her that it would be very expensive to bring witnesses from Glasgow, where the first marriage took place, and recommended her to apply to the authorities of Clerkenwell, where she resided, as they, no doubt, would assist her in the prosecution.
Yesterday she attended at the office, and stated that she had applied to the parish officers, who examined her, and they refused to assist her on the ground that her father had let out tenements in his house, and that her settlement was at Manchester, to which she should apply.
Mr. BENNETT said that the prisoner had offered bail, and he advised her to be at the prison gate and give him into custody the moment he was liberated.
Miss Abbott said she had it not in her power to prosecute the prisoner, who had brought her to ruin, and she quitted the office.

Hope that helps & good luck,
Alan