Help with place name

[Geoff Rogers]

Hello Ross

The census details you posted are those of my presumed Ann McDougall who was born in 1828 at Croftin...... I already have the original census sheet for that family.

The Ann I found in the 1851at Dunbarney shows her birth year as 1829 and born Kenmore.

I have spent this morning working out the distances from Balquhidder and Cargill which is around 51 miles and Dunbarney to Cargill which is about 16 miles.

William Sime is more likely to have met this 1830 Ann in Perth than the 1828 from Balquhidder, (although I can't discount it), especially as the the marriage was in Nov 1853. The marriage didn't seem to be a rushed one as the first born was baptised Dec 1854.

Points now in favour of the 1830 Ann are:-
1- Closeness to William Sime prior to marriage
2- Grandfathers name fits with my ancestors middle name
3- My Ann gave her birth as Loury.... in the 1871 census, which doesn't match with Croftin.... from birth register

The downside to this argument is the ages given in censusus from 1861 - 32, 1871 - 42, 1881 - 51, 1891 - 63, 1901 - 72, Death in 1902 - 73

I'll keep searching but thanks to those who have helped me so far,

Regards
Geoff

[Geoff Rogers]

Hi,

And having complicated matters slightly, I'm going to hopefully uncomplicate them slightly.

It looks like the Ann MacDougall I found in the 1851 census in Strathyre can be found in 1861 living with her sister Margaret and brother-in-law Donald Malloch in Little Dunkeld. Margaret and Donald were married in 1858 in Kenmore. If you can find their marriage record you'll be able to confirm whether Margaret's parents were Hugh MacDougall and Catherine Frazer. This would then rule out the 1828 baptism as being your Ann.

Hope this helps a bit more

Ross

I already have the Donald Malloch and Margaret McDougall marriage and Margaret's parents were Alexander McDougall and Ann McGregor. As Ann was listed as unmarried in the 1861 I had eliminated her. I did build a family tree for Alexander McDougall and Ann McGregor and although most of their children can be found in the parish registers Ann was missing. This would make 3 Ann McDougall's from Kenmore. Interestingly this family were from Lawers which is not far from Croftin.... as far as I can tell.

Thanks for your efforts

Regards
Geoff

[rossm]

Hi Geoff,

It's a case of too many MacDougalls in Perthshire then. Just to satisfy my curiousity - where did the information about Ann being born in Kenmore come from in the first place? It's just I notice there's also an Ann McDougal born in Cargill in 1830...

Cheers
Ross

[Geoff Rogers]

Hi Geoff,

It's a case of too many MacDougalls in Perthshire then. Just to satisfy my curiousity - where did the information about Ann being born in Kenmore come from in the first place? It's just I notice there's also an Ann McDougal born in Cargill in 1830...

Cheers
Ross

Every census from 1861 to 1901 said she was born Kenmore apart from the 1871 Loury.. The 1901 census was in London when she was a widow so it's not a case of the husband putting down something other than the truth.

Geoff

[rossm]

Hi,

Kenmore seems pretty definite then. At the risk of asking an obvious question: does the marriage register throw any light on where Ann is living? I know the Cargill OPRs don't list a lot of information, but I think they do at least say what parish the bride and groom are from. This might narrow down which one of the 1851 censuses is the right one. Assuming she didn't move between 1851 and 1853 of course...

Ross

[Geoff Rogers]

Hello Ross

The register is a one liner with just names, interestingly there is a crossed out entry for David Young and Anne McDougal one week before. That also appears in the SP index. Other entries in the page show other places for some males and females so I would imagine Ann was already residing in Cargill long enough to be of this parish.

I've been on Scotlands People and searched from 1855 - 1867 for Ann McDougall's (mother's name Fraser). I'm working through the list using the censuses to see where she lived. Nothing has come to light so far so I may have the correct Ann already.

I would do a similar search with mothers name as McGilliwie but with so many variations it will cost too much, (although it's been quite expensive to get this far).

Other alternatives are she died / married before 1855.

Thanks for your interest

Regards

Geoff

[Geoff Rogers]

The Ann at Dunbarney can now be eliminated as I have found Ann with siblings Alexander and Janet along with their father Alexander in the 1851 census. The father is a retired inn keeper. All are shown as born Kenmore.

They are now residing at Upper Sonachan, 1 Kilchrenan, Lorn, Argyllshire which is over 100 miles away.

Regards
Geoff

[Geoff Rogers]

In the 1841 census, Alexander McDougall was described as an innkeeper. The death was registered by a niece - I am suggesting that she may have got her uncle's first name wrong (not uncommon on a death certificate). The surname of the niece, and the maiden surname of Isabella MacDougall was given as McGillivray.[/list]AndrewP

Hello Andrew

In your earlier message you mentioned the death of Alexander McDougall, can you tell me where and what year that was please.

With regards to the children in the 1851 census I have only managed to find Janet so far in the 1861 census, Alexander and Ann are proving very difficult to find.

Regards
Geoff

[AndrewP]

In your earlier message you mentioned the death of Alexander McDougall, can you tell me where and what year that was please.

Hi Geoff,

Apologies if I got your hopes up. That was an 1876 death in Glasgow for an Isabella McDougall, not Alexander McDougall. And since that post, we have seen that Alexander MacDougall (senior) was widowed between 1841 and 1851, assuming the information given to the census enumerator was good. So I would discount that Isabella McDougal death.

As for Alexander MacDougall senior's death, that remains a mystery. If he died in Kilchrenan between the 1851 census and the beginning of statutory registration in 1855, then there is probably no record of his death. There are no burial records in the OPRs for the United Parishes of Kilchrenan and Dalavich in any year.

All the best,

AndrewP

[Geoff Rogers]

Hello Andrew

Thanks for clearing things up for me.

As always I have more questions than answers with my Scottish relatives. Also my Ann would have done me a great favour if she had married after 1854 and also not died in England.

I'm also coming to the conclusion that the Ann at Kilchrenan in 1851 is probably too far away to have married in Cargill in 1853.

Regards
Geoff