Hi Maureen,
Glad to hear that Alexander MATHIE with Martha CROSSAN in Motherwell is of your family.
But i'd forgotten that it wasn't only they who'd a son Alexander.
Brother William MATHIE & Agnes McBRIDE had two sons Alexander (your hubby's GF being the 2nd).
The signature of nephew Alexander on Janet's DC might be worth checking against BCs of hubby's GF Alexander's children to confirm it IS him.
(i.e. if he signed any of the BCs)
And now of course back to Janet MATHIE... does her 1906 DC say she is /was married to William GRAME?
Ta - Jack
1851 Census Lookup for Glasgow .....
Moderator: Global Moderators
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Jane Alexander
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- Location: Canada
1851 Census Lookup for Glasgow
Hello Maureen and Jack,
I’ve been reading this Alexander Mathie / Elizabeth Letham thread with interest. I finally had to become a member and submit a reply! I too am one of their descendents, and through their son William Mathie and his wife Agnes McBride. William and Agnes had a daughter, Elizabeth Letham Mathie (b1870 in Anderston), and she married Laurence Alexander in 1890. They are some of my paternal great-grandparents.
I can give you a bit more info on Alexander Mathie and Elizabeth Letham. If you do a search in the Wills and Testaments for Alexander Mathie, you will find an inventory for an Alexander Mathie, “late watchman, residing at Townhead”, who died in February 1841 (so missed the 1841 Census as Jack has noted). In the description you will see the words “spouse of Elizabeth Letham”. If I am reading the inventory correctly, Alexander Mathie was thought to be due the sum of £79 from the estate of a Mrs. Ritchie. The money was being held by a Robert Kirkwood of Lochwinnoch, Ayr.
A further check of the Wills & Testaments finds the inventory of a Janet Ritchie alias Mathie, wife of John Ritchie of Barcraigs in the Parish of Beith, who died on 09 September 1840. Alexander’s sister? In reading her inventory, it seems John Ritchie recalled a £20 loan to “Alexander Mathie sometime residing in Glasgow now deceased”. Janet Mathie’s inventory is witnessed by Mary Mathie and her husband Robert Kirkwood, farmer at Low Chapelton, Parish of Stewarton (not Lochwinnoch, Ayr as noted in Alexander’s inventory). There is also mention of an Andrew Mathie, farmer at Thrashiecrook (? I couldn’t quite make that out), Parish of Erskine. So perhaps Alexander, Janet, Mary, and Andrew Mathie were siblings? I haven’t really done any research on that yet.
According to the IGI, Janet Mathie married John Ritchie (at least banns were called) in 1807 in Beith, Ayr, and in Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew. Mary Mathie married Robert Kirkwood in 1808 in Kilbirnie, Ayr, and their daughters Janet (1817) and Mary (1820) were also christened in Kilbirnie.
I have also managed to find Elizabeth Letham’s death certificate, and was happy to see that she died in 1855! I searched for the death of L*th*m, Eli?abeth, other surnames Mat*, 1855 to 1858 (because listed as deceased on son William’s 1858 MC). There was only 1 result. Bingo! Elisabeth Mathews, ms Lethem (wildcards definitely needed for this one!) It confirms her husband as Alexander Mathews (deceased) and the 5 children from Census 1851, plus a first-born daughter, Elisabeth, who was also deceased. Her parents are also shown as William Lethem and Christina Reid. IGI has a marriage and some children (not Elizabeth though) for William Leatham and Christian Reid.
Getting back to the children of Alexander Mathie & Elizabeth Letham, there certainly seems to be a lot of wrong parental information on the marriage and death certificates for the Mathie sisters Janet and Ann. I can’t explain why Ann Mathie’s (Mathieson) 1857 MC says that her father was James Mathieson, a soldier, or why on her 1884 DC he is Alexander Mathie, a farmer (at least the name is correct!). Sister Janet was the informant on the DC, but was signing with “her mark” so wouldn’t have been able to check for errors. He doesn’t fair much better on Janet’s 1884 marriage to William Grame. There he is listed as William Mathie, a blacksmith (her brother was William Mathie, blacksmith), and her mother is Janet Mathie, ms Wilson (where did that come from?!). I would have dismissed that as the wrong certificate if it wasn’t for the fact that William Grame was living at the same address (13 Keyden Street) that Janet Grame gave when informant on sister Ann’s DC later that same year.
I think that the informant “A. Mathie, nephew” on Janet’s 1906 DC (widow of William Grame), might have been her nephew Archibald Mathie, rather than his brother Alexander. She died at 145 West Scotland Street (Kinning Park, Govan), and this was Archibald’s address for Census 1901. I could not do as Jack suggested and compare his signature with any records I have for his children’s births. Wife Rachel (Gardiner) registered them all! Brother Alexander did sign his children’s certificates, as Alex or Alexander Mathie.
I hope I haven’t snowed you under with information, but I just couldn’t sit here with the answers to some of your questions! Let me know if any of what I have said is not clear, or if I can answer any other Mathie/Letham/McBride questions you may have.
Happy hunting! ...Jane
I’ve been reading this Alexander Mathie / Elizabeth Letham thread with interest. I finally had to become a member and submit a reply! I too am one of their descendents, and through their son William Mathie and his wife Agnes McBride. William and Agnes had a daughter, Elizabeth Letham Mathie (b1870 in Anderston), and she married Laurence Alexander in 1890. They are some of my paternal great-grandparents.
I can give you a bit more info on Alexander Mathie and Elizabeth Letham. If you do a search in the Wills and Testaments for Alexander Mathie, you will find an inventory for an Alexander Mathie, “late watchman, residing at Townhead”, who died in February 1841 (so missed the 1841 Census as Jack has noted). In the description you will see the words “spouse of Elizabeth Letham”. If I am reading the inventory correctly, Alexander Mathie was thought to be due the sum of £79 from the estate of a Mrs. Ritchie. The money was being held by a Robert Kirkwood of Lochwinnoch, Ayr.
A further check of the Wills & Testaments finds the inventory of a Janet Ritchie alias Mathie, wife of John Ritchie of Barcraigs in the Parish of Beith, who died on 09 September 1840. Alexander’s sister? In reading her inventory, it seems John Ritchie recalled a £20 loan to “Alexander Mathie sometime residing in Glasgow now deceased”. Janet Mathie’s inventory is witnessed by Mary Mathie and her husband Robert Kirkwood, farmer at Low Chapelton, Parish of Stewarton (not Lochwinnoch, Ayr as noted in Alexander’s inventory). There is also mention of an Andrew Mathie, farmer at Thrashiecrook (? I couldn’t quite make that out), Parish of Erskine. So perhaps Alexander, Janet, Mary, and Andrew Mathie were siblings? I haven’t really done any research on that yet.
According to the IGI, Janet Mathie married John Ritchie (at least banns were called) in 1807 in Beith, Ayr, and in Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew. Mary Mathie married Robert Kirkwood in 1808 in Kilbirnie, Ayr, and their daughters Janet (1817) and Mary (1820) were also christened in Kilbirnie.
I have also managed to find Elizabeth Letham’s death certificate, and was happy to see that she died in 1855! I searched for the death of L*th*m, Eli?abeth, other surnames Mat*, 1855 to 1858 (because listed as deceased on son William’s 1858 MC). There was only 1 result. Bingo! Elisabeth Mathews, ms Lethem (wildcards definitely needed for this one!) It confirms her husband as Alexander Mathews (deceased) and the 5 children from Census 1851, plus a first-born daughter, Elisabeth, who was also deceased. Her parents are also shown as William Lethem and Christina Reid. IGI has a marriage and some children (not Elizabeth though) for William Leatham and Christian Reid.
Getting back to the children of Alexander Mathie & Elizabeth Letham, there certainly seems to be a lot of wrong parental information on the marriage and death certificates for the Mathie sisters Janet and Ann. I can’t explain why Ann Mathie’s (Mathieson) 1857 MC says that her father was James Mathieson, a soldier, or why on her 1884 DC he is Alexander Mathie, a farmer (at least the name is correct!). Sister Janet was the informant on the DC, but was signing with “her mark” so wouldn’t have been able to check for errors. He doesn’t fair much better on Janet’s 1884 marriage to William Grame. There he is listed as William Mathie, a blacksmith (her brother was William Mathie, blacksmith), and her mother is Janet Mathie, ms Wilson (where did that come from?!). I would have dismissed that as the wrong certificate if it wasn’t for the fact that William Grame was living at the same address (13 Keyden Street) that Janet Grame gave when informant on sister Ann’s DC later that same year.
I think that the informant “A. Mathie, nephew” on Janet’s 1906 DC (widow of William Grame), might have been her nephew Archibald Mathie, rather than his brother Alexander. She died at 145 West Scotland Street (Kinning Park, Govan), and this was Archibald’s address for Census 1901. I could not do as Jack suggested and compare his signature with any records I have for his children’s births. Wife Rachel (Gardiner) registered them all! Brother Alexander did sign his children’s certificates, as Alex or Alexander Mathie.
I hope I haven’t snowed you under with information, but I just couldn’t sit here with the answers to some of your questions! Let me know if any of what I have said is not clear, or if I can answer any other Mathie/Letham/McBride questions you may have.
Happy hunting! ...Jane
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momat
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:50 am
- Location: New Zealand
Hello Jane ,
Welcome to the Family.
I am so pleased to hear from you .
We are definately on the same trail and I thank you for the missing information .You have had more luck than I .
My Husband is your relative and if you wish to contact me privately we
can go into detail and take it off here.
I have now removed email address for privacy reasons
Cheers .
Welcome to the Family.
I am so pleased to hear from you .
We are definately on the same trail and I thank you for the missing information .You have had more luck than I .
My Husband is your relative and if you wish to contact me privately we
can go into detail and take it off here.
I have now removed email address for privacy reasons
Cheers .
Last edited by momat on Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Maureen
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Jack
- Posts: 1808
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
- Location: Paisley
Mathie Family
Hi Jane,
Welcome to TS! - so glad you've joined us; and Maureen, i'm sure, even more so!
Finding Alexander MATHIE's will AND Elizabeth LETHAM's 1855 DC was a great bit of work.
Without them Maureen (and myself) would still have been wondering what really happened.
And also glad we now know who the nephew was.
Plenty for you and Maureen to do now
Jack
Welcome to TS! - so glad you've joined us; and Maureen, i'm sure, even more so!
Finding Alexander MATHIE's will AND Elizabeth LETHAM's 1855 DC was a great bit of work.
Without them Maureen (and myself) would still have been wondering what really happened.
And also glad we now know who the nephew was.
Plenty for you and Maureen to do now
Jack
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momat
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:50 am
- Location: New Zealand
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Jack
- Posts: 1808
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
- Location: Paisley
Letham Births IGI
Hi Maureen and Jane,
You'll most likely have all these by now, but in case not. From the IGI - all extracts.
I notice an LDS member is also interested in your family.
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ROBERT LETHAM - Birth: 26 NOV 1797; Christening: 03 DEC 1797 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents: WILLIAM LETHAM & CHRISTINA REID
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AGNES LETHAM - Birth: 25 JUN 1800; Christening: 30 JUN 1800 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents: WILLIAM LETHAM & CHRISTIAN REID
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ELIZABETH LETHAM - Birth: 31 AUG 1802; Christening: 12 SEP 1802 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents: WILLIAM LETHAM & CHRISTIAN REID
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MARRION LETHAM - Birth: 15 OCT 1804; Christening: 28 OCT 1804 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents: WILLIAM LETHAM & CHRISTINA REID
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JOHN LETHAM - Birth: 06 JAN 1807; Christening:18 JAN 1807 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents:WILLIAM LETHAM & CHRISTINA REID
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WILLIAM LETHAM - Birth: 30 JAN 1809; Christening: 09 FEB 1809 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents: WILLIAM LETHAM & CHRISTIAN REID
--
Jack
You'll most likely have all these by now, but in case not. From the IGI - all extracts.
I notice an LDS member is also interested in your family.
--
ROBERT LETHAM - Birth: 26 NOV 1797; Christening: 03 DEC 1797 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents: WILLIAM LETHAM & CHRISTINA REID
--
AGNES LETHAM - Birth: 25 JUN 1800; Christening: 30 JUN 1800 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents: WILLIAM LETHAM & CHRISTIAN REID
--
ELIZABETH LETHAM - Birth: 31 AUG 1802; Christening: 12 SEP 1802 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents: WILLIAM LETHAM & CHRISTIAN REID
--
MARRION LETHAM - Birth: 15 OCT 1804; Christening: 28 OCT 1804 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents: WILLIAM LETHAM & CHRISTINA REID
--
JOHN LETHAM - Birth: 06 JAN 1807; Christening:18 JAN 1807 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents:WILLIAM LETHAM & CHRISTINA REID
--
WILLIAM LETHAM - Birth: 30 JAN 1809; Christening: 09 FEB 1809 Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents: WILLIAM LETHAM & CHRISTIAN REID
--
Jack
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Jane Alexander
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:29 am
- Location: Canada
Hello again Maureen and Jack!
Thank you for the warm welcome to TS and glad I was able to add a few twigs to the Mathie family tree.
I will definitely be in touch off-line Maureen! Soon..
And Jack, thanks for the IGI info on the children of William Letham and Christian Reid. It hadn't occurred to me that the IGI was making a distinction in the names Christian / Christina, so my original search for children to William Letham and Christina Reid only produced 3 names. By using Christian we get 6 children in all, including the 3 found by using Christina! As you noted, some are LDS patron submissions.
Well, must be off to work now. We had the first-of-the-season snowfall in Ottawa overnight. It looks pretty, but the morning news mentioned a lot of of traffic accidents. Hopefully just little "fender benders".
Bye for now, ...Jane
Thank you for the warm welcome to TS and glad I was able to add a few twigs to the Mathie family tree.
I will definitely be in touch off-line Maureen! Soon..
And Jack, thanks for the IGI info on the children of William Letham and Christian Reid. It hadn't occurred to me that the IGI was making a distinction in the names Christian / Christina, so my original search for children to William Letham and Christina Reid only produced 3 names. By using Christian we get 6 children in all, including the 3 found by using Christina! As you noted, some are LDS patron submissions.
Well, must be off to work now. We had the first-of-the-season snowfall in Ottawa overnight. It looks pretty, but the morning news mentioned a lot of of traffic accidents. Hopefully just little "fender benders".
Bye for now, ...Jane
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Jack
- Posts: 1808
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:34 pm
- Location: Paisley
Christina Letham?
Hi Maureen & Jane,
This is only an outside chance for Christina (REID) - can't see the lady in Glasgow 1851 though.
But no harm in having a note of this family.
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1841 cens 622 Ed 187 p 21 (Barony - Camlachie)
Reid's Lane, Parkhead.
Christina LETHAM, 60, --------------- b LKS
John LETHAM, 30, pensioner (blind), b LKS
David LETHAM, 20, shoemaker, b LKS
James RAE, 9yrs, -------------- b LKS
--
Jack
This is only an outside chance for Christina (REID) - can't see the lady in Glasgow 1851 though.
But no harm in having a note of this family.
--
1841 cens 622 Ed 187 p 21 (Barony - Camlachie)
Reid's Lane, Parkhead.
Christina LETHAM, 60, --------------- b LKS
John LETHAM, 30, pensioner (blind), b LKS
David LETHAM, 20, shoemaker, b LKS
James RAE, 9yrs, -------------- b LKS
--
Jack
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momat
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- Location: New Zealand
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Jane Alexander
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:29 am
- Location: Canada
Hello Jack,
I echo Maureen's sentiments!
Thank you very much for the 1841 info on Christina Letham. Don't know if she's our Christina, but it is perhaps suggestive that she was living in Barony (where William Letham & Christina Reid's children were born, although I don't see them with a son called David), and living in Reid's Lane.
The 9-year-old James Rae is also of interest. Agnes Mathie ms McBride had a brother, William Montgomery McBride, who married a Margaret Rae in 1852. Her father was James Rae. Obviously not the 9-yr-old from 1841, but possibly a relationship in there somewhere?
I'll keep note of this Census entry, and let you know if I can make a definite link. Thanks again for your help, ...Jane
I echo Maureen's sentiments!
Thank you very much for the 1841 info on Christina Letham. Don't know if she's our Christina, but it is perhaps suggestive that she was living in Barony (where William Letham & Christina Reid's children were born, although I don't see them with a son called David), and living in Reid's Lane.
The 9-year-old James Rae is also of interest. Agnes Mathie ms McBride had a brother, William Montgomery McBride, who married a Margaret Rae in 1852. Her father was James Rae. Obviously not the 9-yr-old from 1841, but possibly a relationship in there somewhere?
I'll keep note of this Census entry, and let you know if I can make a definite link. Thanks again for your help, ...Jane