Census Help .....

[StewL]

Hello again Jack

I knew that you had written down what you saw, like you said censuses arent perfect. It was just that with the ages it seemed (although never assume anything in family history ) logical that he was the grandson.

As to my Aunt May, it was just one of those diversions that sometimes comes over you like a rash I must have been away with the fairies when I thought of it

I will check Maria Payne out on SP, when I tried to see what was there last night I kept including other names, never thought to try just Payne, as funny as it sounds, those were my thoughts last night that the informant didn't know the other names

[StewL]

Hello once again Jack

I just purchased Maria Paynes DC from ScotsPeeps.

In the view section before I purchased it!

1901 Payne Maria other name Lowrie F79 Dennistoun Glasgow City/Lanark 644/03 0364

Now for the information on DC!
Maria Payne Widow
1st John Watson Shoemaker
2nd George Payne Corkmaker

1901 February 12th Barnhill Poorhouse, Glasgow. Usual residence –

Father: Robert Lowrie(sic) Shoemaker (Deceased)
Mother: Mary Lowrie(sic) ms Irvine (Deceased)

Influenza Debility

Informant: Angus? Chisolm Assistant Governor

All entries on this page were from Barnhill Poorhouse.

So a brilliant find, she is definitely Daniels sister. =D>

Now to see if I can find John and Wullie

[StewL]

Hello Jack again

I got John Laurie’s DC

Details:
John Laurie Pauper formerly a shoemaker
1881 December 19th City Poorhouse, Glasgow
Age 47
Parents:
Robert Laurie – Shoemaker Master? (Deceased)
Mary Laurie MS Irving(sic) (Deceased)
Peritonitis 8 days
Informant Henrietta Laurie x her mark Widow

There were six on the page, but after a bit of deduction (guesswork?) I picked the right one first off.
It is not the best of images so I will submit a contact form.

Now to see if I can find Wullie, first one I got wasn’t him.
It looks like your assumptions from the censuses were correct.
Well I have tried to find Wullie, but have had no luck so far with Glasgow, and none in Dunbarton, where later family lived. I might have to broaden the search a bit.
Doing a no district search brings up 17 possibilities the length and breadth of Scotland!

I found Sophie(a) Whannel’s(sic) DC 5th May 1879 in St. Rollox , married to William Laurie shoemaker, she died in the City Poorhouse, so it looks like the family fell on hard times, if she is the wife of William Laurie in my line!
One of the William Laurie’s I found also died in St Rollox in the City Poorhouse, but he was listed as single and his occupation and parents don’t fit, but the informant was John McPherson Governor??
So just a outside chance it is actually him, with the informant doing a bit of guesswork at his parents, a long shot I know!
I got all of Johns wains from IGI but havent put them in the records yet, ma heid was fairly birlin after the hours I spent searching this morning, I think I was even seeing triple of everything

So quite a bit of information collected, just not sure what to do about Wullie at the present. I tend to think the Wullie & Sophie you found are the right ones, but no absolute proof as yet. But I think the 1851 census is the right one, as the birthplaces fit, I still cant see the Irish connection.
So he is the only one so far I cant positively link to Robert and Mary.

[Jack]

Hi Stewie,
You sound much back to normal, and also glad to see you're getting good results from SP!
Although you might not recognise it as such, i think a lot of the "guesswork" in Fam Hist is really deduction through experience.
On the other hand - some hunches (gut feelings with no real proof) do turn out to be correct too!
--
Re Maria - my search for her death on SP eventually gave a Maria PAYNE age 79, died 1901 Dennistoun.
But when i also entered L*R* for another surname it said none.... i even tried just L*, and WATSON too - still said none!
That's why i thought the informant knew little of her. Yet her DC has 3 names! Very odd....

Below is just an "interim" report at the moment.
I've a lot to check - finding things a wee bit difficult to read at times.
It would seem that Robert LAWRIE & Mary IRVINE were in Ireland around 1820; then moved to Glasgow by abt mid 1820s.
William LAWRIE (wife Sophia WHANNEL) is definitely the son of Robert LAWRIE & Mary IRVINE.
And unless you can find another Daniel LAWRIE, with these samed parents to be your GG-GrFather, then this does look like his family.
==
The info below are only excerpts from the Poor Relief records. Still to get full details.
--
D-HEW. 10/2/18. p266. No 63509. 9 Aug 1858.
Mary (IRVINE) LAWRIE, 66, widow, born England. Address 132 Gallowgate.
Children -
Maria 40, widow? +3; widow +2 [children]
William 38, married +6; shoemaker +10
Daniel 33, married +2; shoemaker +2
John 28, married +4; shoemaker +5
[the 2nd parts against the 4 names were added 1863]
==
D-HEW. 10/3/34. p108. No B37155. 14 Jan 1867.
Mary (IRVINE) LAWRIE, 82 [sic], born Dromore, Ireland [sic], Address 139 Stockwell St.
Husband Robert born Ireland and died 1839 [this would be consistant with the 1841 census where Mary is with children only]
(pas - John IRVINE, shoemaker [sic] & ANN McNEIL)
[seems the info on this application was given by her daur-in-law Sophia, so maybe this is why the inconsistencies]
Children -
Maria 50, b Dublin; widow +grown up children
William 44, b Dromore, married +8
Daniel 40, b Gallowgate, married +3
John 36, b Gallowgate, married +4
==
D-HEW. 10/2/18. p123. No C13640. 20 Oct 1876.
Sophia (WHANNEL) LAWRIE, 51, born Johnstone.
The application address was as - Suspension Bridge, Glasgow Green - house 9 Slatefield St.
Attempted suicide.
Husband William LAWRIE, 54, b Dromore, Ireland (son of Robert LAWRIE, soldier [sic] & Mary IRVINE)
Children -
William 35 - went to New Zealand 10yrs ago.
Robert 33 - married +3, wood turner, 82 London Rd.
Maria 26 - married +2. Duncan McPHERSON, Weaver St.
Margaret 24 - married +1. William PERRIE, at Tollcross.
Daniel 22 - b Helensburgh, u/m collier with sister Margaret.
Robert HOWIE 13 - b St Andrews Square. Living with father [where does this Robert fit in?!!]

William may have fallen on hard times; wife Sophia was sent to Woodilee Asylum on 21 Oct 1876.
This was the day after the application. It goes on to say she died City Asylum 5 May 1879.
For some reason i can't find William in the area on the 1881 census.
I can see Maria & Margaret, but not the other children.
[an outside chance for Robert 37 in Glasgow. Also outside one for Daniel - but as David 23 [sic] in Edinburgh]
==
D-HEW. 10/4/59. p 109. No C69643. 19 Aug 1884.
Daniel LAWRIE, 60, b 112 [sic] Gallowgate on 28 May 1824. Address 38 Sydney St.
Wife Janet PORTERFIELD, b Johnstone.
(pas - Robert LAWRIE, shoemaker & Mary IRVINE)
Children -
Robert 23 - b 21 May 1861, New Wynd. married +1
Isabella 21 - married +2. John BOYD.
Husband's relatives - NONE
[this is a worry - we know Maria was living. But maybe he wanted nothing to do with her? Her 1857 record says she is a "drunken spendthrift"... ]
Wife's relatives - 1 brother William, married, in Parkhead.
Daniel died - 10 Jan 1885
==
Jack
ps. i was wrong - this ISN'T the son of William & Sophia. Maybe their John has died youngish? - no mention of him on Sophia's record.
[parents of John below are probably a William Lawrie, blacksmith & Sarah McEwan]
1881 Census Place:Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 77 Kirk St
Source: FHL Film 0203643 GRO Ref Volume 644-4 EnumDist 35 Page 20
John LAWRIE M 24 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Smith
Rose LAWRIE M 21 F Edinr, Edinburgh, Scotland Rel: Wife
Elizabeth LAWRIE 1 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Daur
==

[LesleyB]

Jack

Re Maria - my search for her death on SP eventually gave a Maria PAYNE age 79, died 1901 Dennistoun.
But when i also entered L*R* for another surname it said none.... i even tried just L*, and WATSON too - still said none!

Just read this post - it seems there is currently a problem with cross checks on female names - see post:
http://talkingscot.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=
This may explain your problem - or maybe not!!

Best wishes
Lesley

[Jack]

Thanks Lesley!
I was still typing up a reply to Stewie this afternoon - hadn't read any other posts
So it wisnae me that broke it.... Jack
ps. and thanks of course to you too Annette for highlighting the problem!

[StewL]

Jack
I forgot to post the other two DC’s I got yesterday, I told you ma heid wis birlin.
Jack, please don’t strain your peepers on my account, take it easy!!

1879 Laurie Sophia Ms Whannel F53 St Rollox Glasgow City/Lanark 644/06 0618
Details:
Sophia Laurie Pauper Married to William Laurie Shoemaker journeyman
May 5 1879 City Poorhouse Glasgow
F 53
Parents:
George Whannel Cotton Spinner (Deceased)
Sophie Whannel Ms Marshall? (Deceased)
Cerebral Disease
Informant Maria McPherson? Her mark Daughter 20 Weaver Street??? Hard to read
&
1903 Lawrie(sic) Henrietta Ms Watson F67 Camlachie Glasgow City/Lanark 644/02 0512
Henrietta Lawrie Widow of John Lawrie shoemaker Aug 1st 1903
F 67
Parents:
John Watson Shoemaker (Deceased)
Annie Watson Ms Mathieson (Another Mathieson in the line)
Pulmonary Congestion and Bronchitis 1 month 7 days
Informant:
Janet Halliday her mark Daughter present.

Lesley
Thanks for information, I tried every combination including soundex and wildcards too Jack, trying to get Maria Paynes (Laurie) DC, eventually got it by just entering Maria Payne, an it wisnae me that broke it either.

Yes I am much better now Jack, pretty much back on track.

You are right about hunches, maybe also I am getting better at this lark, than I think I am.

I put the wains for John & Henrietta in my records, but I am a bit confused about the twa Roberts, they do have different spellings of Laurie/Lawrie, but parents are correct, and I couldn’t find a death for the earlier Robert. I couldn’t find a BC for him in 1856 either? Will have a look for the later Robert soon. I thought I might have had a stray for Robert from my previous searches, but unfortunately I don’t.

[Jack]

Hi Stewie,
If you've got any money left you could check out the 21 Oct 1855 DC of John WATSON (who married Maria LAWRIE).
He might have the same parents as Henrietta WATSON who was married to John LAWRIE?
Was just curious to see if it was a sister & brother marrying a brother & sister.
Jack
ps. maybe this is the "Robert Howie"?!
JAMES ROBERT HOWIE LAWRIE - Birth: 14 AUG 1861 Calton, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Parents:
WILLIAM LAWRIE
SOPHIA WHINNELL
--

[StewL]

Hello Jack

I still have a few credits left, and OK I might twist my arm and get some more if I need them.
So I will have a look at those pair later today

[StewL]

Jack

I couldnt resist and had a look at John Watson's 1855 DC, lucky last on list of 24
Well the theory of sister-brother, brother-sister marriages is down the toilet.
Johns parents are listed as Thomas Watson and Rosana Watson ms Unknown, Henrietta's parents are John Watson and Annie Watson ms Mathieson.

I will resist the temptation to Look at the other for the moment