Anyone know anything about Eaglesham?

[kennethm]

There was a receiving house for post in Eaglesham from at least 1808. Letters from Glasgow arrived every evening and were despatched every morning from the receiving house at John Arneil's (Cross Keys Inn). The earliest postbox in the village is a George V (reign 1910-1936) postbox which suggests before that, folk had to post their letters at the Post Office. I don't know when deliveries to houses were introduced. A telegraph office was inaugurated at the Post Office in 1893 but I haven't found out if the Post Office was still at the Cross Keys at this time or had moved somewhere else.

Ken

[Alan SHARP]

Quote from - nzpost.co.nz pages:
Guide to NZ Stamps
Postage stamps were invented in Great Britain. The first stamp was issued on 6 May 1840. This stamp was called the Penny Black.

On 8 May 1840 the Two penny Blue stamp was issued. The most famous of these two stamps is the Penny Black as it was the one most used at that time and more of them were around to later be saved in stamp collections.

Before stamps were invented, people used to write on large sheets of paper and fold them several times. Then they wrote on the outside of the sheet of paper the name and address of the person the letter was for. The more sheets of paper the letter was written on, the more the letter cost to deliver. Envelopes were not used because an envelope would count as a sheet of paper. Letters were paid for by the recipient, not the sender, which meant although the item had already been sorted and had travelled the chargeable distance, acceptance and payment for the letter was at the sole discretion of the person it was addressed to.

Letters that had to travel a long way in the days before stamps were issued cost more to send than letters that didn't go far.

It was a British man called Rowland Hill who worked out that it did not cost the Post Office very much to carry letters long distances. The thing that cost the most was the sorting of the letter at the Post Office when first posted, and then having someone deliver it in the town it was addressed to. Rowland Hill proposed that all letters should cost the same to send no matter how far the letter was going. He recommended the price all people should pay to send an ordinary letter was one penny and two pennies for larger letters. Then Rowland Hill invented an adhesive stamp to be stuck on the letter to identify that postage had been paid.

When other countries saw how good this idea was, they soon issued their own stamps. As Great Britain was the first country to issue stamps, British stamps are the only stamps that are not required to bear the country's name.

New Zealand issued postal stamps on 18 July 1855, 15 years after the British ones came out. The New Zealand stamps are called the 'Full Face Queens' because the picture on them was a front view of the head and shoulders of Queen Victoria wearing the robes she wore when she was crowned Queen. There were three stamps in the Full Face Queen set. They cost 1 penny (1d), 2 penny (2d), and 1 shilling (1s) and were printed in Britain. Other values were added to the set later.

The first New Zealand stamp that was designed in New Zealand was a half penny stamp issued on 1 January 1873. This stamp is called the 'Newspaper' stamp, as it was used to pay for newspapers being sent through the post. The stamp design shows a sideview of Queen Victoria's head and because of this it is one of the early New Zealand stamps known as Sidefaces.

New Zealand was the first country in the world to put advertising on the back of stamps. A number of Sideface stamps had advertising messages printed on the back (gummed side) in 1893. But people complained because they thought that licking the ink was unhealthy, so the Post Office stopped using advertising on the back of stamps.

New Zealand was also one of the first countries to introduce a 'penny universal' stamp. The idea of the 'penny universal' was that all countries should charge a standard amount for postage as this would make it easier sending letters from one country to another. New Zealand's 'penny universal' stamp was issued on the first day of the 20th century. It showed a woman in long robes standing in front of a globe and, in the background, a mailboat passing Mount Egmont/Taranaki. When it was issued, one person said that the design looked like a school teacher trying to teach geography to a dull class while holding a cane in her hand. Even so, huge numbers of these stamps were printed over the years. New Zealand Post Offices opened specially for one hour on New Year's Day 1900 to sell the 'penny universal' stamps. It was hoped that this would lead the world into setting a standard amount for postage to and from every country. The idea was taken up by many countries - but not Australia which threatened to return any letters carrying only the penny stamp!

End of this Quote, Though there were many more NZ firsts listed on the page.

International post was very important to NZ because so many had emigrated from the UK. Mail too and from HOME !

Kenneth.
"Papers Past" clippings show local papers full of spring adverts for the Stallions on offer by their travelling masters. Think of the lengthy journey those horses went through, confined as cargo on those sailing ships. Horses were in big demand. There were no canals, and by the 1870's railway lines had only just started venturing out from the four major cities.
Then the South and North Island gold rushes started, in rough country that only horses could haul the machinery into.

Alan SHARP.

[sheilajim]

Hi Ken,

Thank you for the pictures. =D> It could be the houses. It is certainly in the area. However,in this instance I don't think that the enumerator is giving the numbers of the houses, He hasn's given any numbers of any houses this time, instead I think that he is giving the numbers of the households that he has visited. That said, after the 46th household he writes "end of Gilmore Street" and the 47th household, on which he notes as Back Row, is the first house on Back Row or Montgomery Square. I am not well acquainted with the area, but it would seem that wherever Gilmore Street ends at Montgomery Square would be near where my old relatives lived. I am also wondering how many people lived in a house without being related. Is it possible that there were multiple families living in one house? I know that such a thing sounds pretty crowded but people didn't expect as much as we expect today.
All of this can be pretty confusing to me.

Alan-Did the first stamp cost 1 penny or 2 pennies? Was receiving a letter expensive in those days? How much could a penny buy at that time. I remember reading a Jane Austen novel where a girl was told that her uncle or someone would pay for her letter to be sent to her family. I think that the term used was 'frank' her letter.

P.S. I hope that they keep this area as a conservation site. It would be a shame if they tore it all down and turned it into some shopping mall or something.

[Russell]

Hi Sheila

I live in Kilbarchan which is a similar ex-weaving conservation village. Many of the original houses here were part of a 'common close' so one house number served four or more houses. Each house was usually only two rooms one of which was the weaving shop. It often had to double up as a bedroom though. The other room was kitchen/living room/bedroom all in one with a shared privy or toilet outside. Just imagine answering a call of nature during the night having to come down stairs, often unlit, to an outside loo. Not surprising that many folk had a chamber pot under the bed.
Sometimes the roof space was yet another apartment.
I have seen census entries where the family of five or six also had a boarder or lodger. Where they put them I shudder to think. Having said that I remember as a youngster having to give up my bed and sleep on the floor when a relative came to visit then being tramped on when they decided to come to bed (MY BED )
Privacy must be a fairly modern concept

Russell

[sheilajim]

Hi Russell,

I wonder how they lived with all of that crowding. I had to laugh at your memories. It brought back memories of my own.

Today every child expects their own bedroom, but even when I was a little girl I not only had to share not only a bedroom, but a bed, with my older sister for several years. It wasn't the most fun time that I ever had. She was 6 years older than me and when I first started sleeping with her I would often find myself knocked out of bed onto the floor. When I complained to my mother, she had the bed pushed against the wall so that I wouldn't fall or be pushed out. I didn't fall out after that but I would often wake up splat against the wall. My sister would grab all of the covers and wrap them around herself leaving me with none.

It wasn't all bad though, she would tell me bedtime stories before we went to sleep. These were usually hair raising tales which she would leave unfinished until the next night. They always were about monsters and ghosts. Very scary for a six and seven year old, which I was at the time. She would go to sleep while I would lie awake wondering how the story finished. I was so glad when I finally got my own bed. Today my sister, who lives not far from me, and I have a good laugh about those days when we talk about them.

[Russell]

Hi Sheila

We seem to be hijacking a perfectly respectable and very informative thread, but some of our comments are relevant at least. Some of the weavers homes had a 'box' bed and they used to store potatoes and such under it. Other families had to keep the pallias or mattress under it until it was needed at night. Town/city tenements built around the 1890's - 1900's were still built with a bed recess or box beds but it scared me as a child in the 1940's having to sleep in what was in effect a cupboard complete with door (It was in the front parlour so her flat must have been a bit up-market ) Although there didn't appear to be a key - there was a lock and I was always afraid that somehow I would be locked in

At least the parlour was carpeted unlike my bedroom at home which had cold, cold linoleum on the floor.

And Alan I have just discovered that I have NO early New Zealand stamps in my collection. Thanks for that fascinating bit of information.

Russell

[sheilajim]

Russell - It really seems strange to store potatoes under a bed, but in those days I don't suppose that they had very many closets or cupboards and they had to make use of the space that they did have. I don't blame you for feeling a little frightened about sleeping in what was practically a closet. You must have had that closed in feeling at nights.

Ken- You are an expert on Eaglesham. You certainly have many wonderful facts on your site. In the 19th century was Gilmore Street much shorter? The census taker reports the 'end of Gilmore Street' and goes right into Montgomery Square. That would seem to suggest that Gilmore Street ended at Montgomery Square. On today's maps that is not the case.
Another thing is confusing me about the census report. On the 1871 census for my GGGGrandfather's widow and family, he reports 'rooms with windows 1'. In that household, there was my GGGGrandfather's widow, one daughter, one son, one adopted son, and two young children listed as boarders. That is six people which I think is quite a lot. What does room with windows mean? Could that mean one room with one window, or one large room with one or many windows? Were there rooms without windows? Were there less windows then in those old houses than there are now? Why would such a thing be on the census anyway? Maybe I am asking too many questions.

Regards

[Hibee]

Hi Shiela

I think the windows question was a subtle means of determining the quality of the housing, and, by inference, the class of the occupants.

Many houses had windowless rooms, especially if built during the period of the window tax.

In the Irish census, they just came right out with it, and asked for class of housing.

Hibee

[Alan SHARP]

Greetings All.

As stated else where, when you feel you are up against a brick wall, immerse yourself in the time and times, then if you are lucky you will find the wall is not as solid (dry stone like) as you thought, and little glimmers of light are to be found therein, to help you on your way. This thread fascinates me because of that.

STAMPS: I started collecting a few stamps when our primary school Head Master suggested we write to Pitcairn Island to get mail containing their stamps. (Mr ALLEN had just returned from a stint teaching there.) Because my Uncle collected stamps and had a few to give me, I did collect for a short while. As that was so long ago, after reading the Eaglesham thread, and remembering the 'penny black' I decided to check the NZ Post site, to see when stamps came into being. I found their intro page very interesting, so posted the first few paragraphs as a quote. It would appear that the penny post was an early standard rate.

If you think of coinage of the period there would have been both farthings (1/4 penny) and halfpenny (1/2) on the go at the same time. So in today’s terms four times the smallest coin that is legal tender, of your current coins.

Just a week, or two, ago a sheet of very early NZ stamps, sold for a small fortune. In the first print run, the illustration art work, in the back ground, was printed the wrong way. It went unspotted for a considerable period of time.

POTATOES: Keeping them under the bed is quite a surprise. The accepted way to keep potatoes is in a cool damp, and DARK environment. In the North Island of NZ below, the snow line, it was common to leave them in the ground if the soil was free draining, or store them in a cellar or specially made earthen bunker. (Must be rat free though.)

Before the Europeans came, the local Maori had it down to a fine art. Growing sub-tropical tubers (including sweet potato) in the upper North Island with mild winters was no problem, but once they got to the frost zone the ideal growing period was so short, that they resorted to carting sand and topsoil considerable distances to create free draining raised beds angled for the sun, and on sheltered slopes. Then stored them in earthen pits, to see them through the winter.

Eaglesham Fair: I'm too close now, to one of our larger cities, but I believe the more distant "country shows" especially what we call the A & P associated shows (Agricultural & Pastoral) still have large entries for completions like Highland dancing, pipe bands, and other Gaelic pursuits, as well as livestock and produce. Photos from such shows, would look very similar to those posted by Eaglesham, on their web page.

LIVING CONDITIONS: Cramped living conditions, top n tailing siblings, and night soil, were the norm for the working class until after WWII. Even in NZ first homes and employee homes, were only built with two bedrooms, and possibly a large veranda which could be covered in. As family and equity grew then more rooms could be added.

Alan SHARP.

P.S. Forgot to add:

RE Window. Was that in the period that windows were being boarded up because of taxes ?

[LesleyB]

Hi Alan

RE Window. Was that in the period that windows were being boarded up because of taxes ?

Window tax was a lot earlier - the 1780/90s as far as I remember.

Best wishes
Lesley