Census Help .....

[StewL]

Hello Jack

Yes I am learning the usefulness of censuses I was thinking the same thing about Wullie snr. Just pencil him in, but realising the chances of getting any proof are pretty slim. Mary is a bit of a mystery in 1851 along with the other sons John and Wee Wullie, so will have to plod on and even consider tha she was left out somehow on the census.

I purchased a few of the 1851 census CD's including Lanarkshire, Dunbarton and Glasgow so just getting the hang of using them.

[rita]

Hello Stewie
Just out of interest my Gt Gt Grandparents were Payne's and just wondering if they got mixed up in your Lawrie/Watson people.
Catherine Roberts married Robert Payne( occupation ; cork cutter) 1854 in Liverpool his first wife was an Elizabeth McNeil his father was George Payne (occ; cork cutter)
Robert and Catherine then show up in what looks like 122 Gallowgate St Glasgow where they have family daughter Catherine was born 1861.
and others after that.
Rita

[StewL]

Hello Rita

Sorry about the delay in replying, but work is the curse of the amateur genealogist.

I have a Maria Watson (ms Laurie) (54yrs) marrying George Payne (67 yrs) cork cutter (master) on 13 Dec 1878 in Dennistoun. Georges father was James Payne and Mary McLaughlin? (A bit hard to read). Maria died on 12 Feb 1901 Barnhill Poorhouse. I haven’t found Georges DC, the only one between 1878 and 1901 wasn’t him

So dont know for sure if we have a bit of a mix in the families

[rita]

Hello Stewie
Given that George Payne was 67 when he married your Maria does the cert mention a 1st wife. My Robert's mother was Hannah Hyndman on Robert's death cert he died Oct 1883 and the father George was deceased by then. oh and Robert's wife died 1889 City Poorhouse Glasgow; although I don't have details of that.
Rita

[StewL]

Hello rita

Sorry it doesnt give a first wifes name only that he was a widower. I only know that Maria is the right one as it gives her parents names that fit.
If I can find his DC it should/may give his first wifes name.

[Jack]

Hi Rita and Stewie,
It would seem a fair possibilty that they are connected - can't be too many George PAYNE, corkcutters!
And on the face of things the PAYNE family seems be connected in some way to a LAIRD family.
Here's George & Hannah in 1851 & 1861 - you'd need to look at the pages to see how they all fit in.
Your PAYNE families are certainly very near to one another in 1861.

They should all be on ScotlandsPeople, but The Mitchell Library in Glasgow has the films if you could manage a visit.
And if you can, then it might also be worth checking the Poor Relief records for any PAYNEs.
As Catherine (Roberts) Payne died in the P. House there might be a record for her, or hubby Robert at some time.
===
1851 cens 644-1 (549) Ed 6 p 17 (Outer High)
William LAIRD, 58
John do, 15
Samuel PAYNE, 24
Jane do, 25
Jane do, 3
George do abt 1
[just a few doors away is a James PAYNE 27 & Alice 25]
-
1851 cens 644-1 (589) Ed 16 p 33 (St. Andrews)
George PAYNE, 50
Hannah do, 48
Hannah do, 15
George do, 13
Matilda LAIRD, 26
Margaret do, 3
Mary do, abt 1
Hugh PAYNE, 7
Daniel CLERK, 18
William LAIRD, 22
Mary do, 18
Archibald do, abt 1
-
1851 cens 622 (593) Ed 10 p 8 (Calton)
Robert PAYNE, 21
Elizabeth do, 20
George do, abt 1
===
1861 cens 644-4 Ed 5 p 9 Lines 2-4 (Calton)
George PAYNE 56, b Ireland
Hannah do, 56, b Ireland
Hugh do, 17, b Glasgow
-
1861 cens 644-4 Ed 5 p 11 Lines 12-17 (Calton)
Robert PAYNE, 30, b Ireland
Catherine do, 30, b England
George do, 11, b Glasgow
James R do, 9, b Glasgow
Samuel J do, 4, b England
Mary MOD?, 3, b Glasgow
-
1861 cens 644-4 Ed 5 p 11 Lines 20-22 (Calton) - also,
1861 cens 644-4 Ed 32 p 18 Lines 9-11 (Calton) - so either a double entry or a flitting!
James PAYNE, 38, b Ireland
Catherine do, 27, b Glasgow
George do, abt 1, b Glasgow
[just prior to James in Ed 32 is Daniel CLARK 26 & Jane (LAIRD) 28, Elizabeth 4, Daniel abt 1,
and with them is a Jane PAYNE 14, all b Glasgow]
===
Jack

[rita]

Hello Jack and Stewie
Like Catrina I initially followed this thread because of the banter between the two of you and because Stewie had Watson's but mine never joined in
but then he had Payne's and like the two of you my head was birling trying to follow it all. My Payne's were in Beith by the 1881 census Robert still cork cutter but the rest of their family were working in the chair factory this is where daughter Catherine eventually marries into the Paterson family. although Robert's address is Gallowgate when he died in 1883. son Samuel is the informant ( he wasn't in the Beith census) and that was the only way that I knew that there was a son . so thanks Jack for finding him. I havn't had time yet to go through the rest of your post but I see there is Lairds and although we have Lairds in our family I thought they were from our mother's side the Payne's are from my Dad's side. If my Payne's are connected to Stewie I wonder if Robert had a brother George who married Maria's daughter Rosana Watson?
Rita

[Jack]

Hi Rita,
A George PAYNE did indeed marry Rosan WATSON on 21 Dec 1870.
(a look at this MC should say if this George is the son of George & Hannah, and Rosan the daur of Maria -
i'll be very surprised if they're not)
But she's been left a young widow by 1881, and seemingly they had no (surviving if any) children.
This was a msg to Stewie on 3rd Jan.
--
I'd been wondering where Maria (LAURIE) WATSON, if living, had got to in 1881 - this might be her.
Has she married her daur's father-in-law? Daur Roseann WATSON married a George PAYNE in 1870.
Maria was born abt 1820, and maybe her DC is under PANE / PAYNE too?
--
1881 Census Place: Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 680 Duke St Or Glen Place
Source: FHL Film 0203635 GRO Ref Volume 644-2 EnumDist 65 Page 7
George PANE M 83 M Ireland Rel: Head Occ: Cork Cutter
Maria PANE M 66 F Ireland Rel: Wife
Roseann PANE W 29 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Rel: Dar In Law Occ: Cottonmill Worker
Alexander SIMPSON U 17 M Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Rel: Boarder Occ: Baker
==
And the msg from Stewie on 8th Jan.

I just purchased Maria Paynes DC from ScotsPeeps.

1901 Payne Maria other name Lowrie F79 Dennistoun Glasgow
City/Lanark 644/03 0364
Maria Payne Widow
1st John Watson Shoemaker
2nd George Payne Corkmaker
1901 February 12th Barnhill Poorhouse, Glasgow. Usual residence –
Father: Robert Lowrie(sic) Shoemaker (Deceased)
Mother: Mary Lowrie(sic) ms Irvine (Deceased)
Influenza Debility
Informant: Angus? Chisolm Assistant Governor

All entries on this page were from Barnhill Poorhouse.
So she is definitely Daniels sister.
==
Jack
ps, i'm going to Park Circus tomorrow to get some (very!) overdue promised stuff for my cousin,
and if time permits i'll check the parents of George Payne on the 1870 MC to Rosan Watson.
Also needed is the elder George the corkcutter's DC - hopefully with 1st wife's name.

pps, this looks very much like your Samuel in 1881.
Crownpoint Street (now Fielden St) ran southwards from the Gallowgate.
1881 Census Place: Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Dwelling: 4 Crownpoint St
Source: FHL Film 0203634 GRO Ref Volume 644-2 EnumDist 18 Page 12
Samuel PAYNE M 24 M Liverpool, England Rel: Head Occ: Master Hair Dresser
Leonora PAYNE M 25 F Ireland Rel: Wife
Margt. PAYNE 3 F Glasgow Rel: Dau
Catherine PAYNE 1 F Glasgow Rel: Dau
--

[ninatoo]

I think the Watsons and Lawries liked each other for a while. Mine are:

Samuel Watson, b. about 1787 who married Janet Lawrie (Laurie, Lowrie) b. 1792 in Co. Donegal. Janet was the daughter of Andrew Lawrie and Janet Maxwell according to her death registration. Their children were Margaret, Mathew, William and Janet all born Glasgow in the 1820's.

Nina

[rita]

Hello All
Well how did I know if I jumped in on this one it would lead to more confusion on my part anyway.
Thanks for your input Jack seems there were more Paynes' than I thought still don't know about the Lairds from Glasgow as I know my mother kept in touch with some from Dalmelington or Patna.
As for my Watson's they are one of our
Noticed Stewie you have Grahams they weren't in Glasgow at the same time as your Lauries' by any chance as according to my Catherine Paynes'
death cert informant looks like son in-law is a Graham.
Well I prob won't have much spare time in the next week or two but if I find out any more will let you know.
Rita