Something amiss?

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:25 am

Hi all,

Today at Ancestry.com, I found a possible ancestor, James Obrien in Stirling Prison in 1871 aged 27. I wanted to take a look at the original document but when I search Stirling for James, and indeed for some of the other prisoners on the list from Ancestry at SP, I get no results!

Can anyone tell me what's going on please?

Nina

Post by **paddyscar** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:42 pm

Hi Nina:

SP 1871 census has only 4 James Obrien listings aged 26 to 27. It may be worth the credit to see those and judge the most likely. I've no experience in finding prisoners on the census. I wonder if he were 'on his way' to or from court on the day the census was taken, or in the local lock-up on that day, or even if prison records are often problematic based on this statement on SP

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... ?r=554&398

Since the census recorded those in a particular household on census night, the person you are looking for may be missing from home because they were living and working elsewhere, staying with relatives, in an institution, hospital, prison, at sea, etc. and either recorded there or not at all.

I'm sure you'll get something more than speculation from those with more experience.

All the best,
Frances

Post by **SarahND** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:45 pm

Hi Nina,
I see the one you mean on Ancestry. Searching on SP for James Blyth age 40 (not 41 as on the Ancestry transcription) in Stirling, I do get one hit. According to Ancestry he is on line 8 of the same page where James Obrien is on line 5. Similarly, Alexander Hunter, age 55 gets one hit. He is on line 1.

There is one James McBrien age 27 in Stirling on SP... could he be the one?

All the best,
Sarah

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:28 pm

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies! The other James O'Briens do not fit for one reason or another. They are either married or in the wrong employ. He is the only James (Mc)Brien with the correct job and correct age. I suppose that a prison guard or the enumerator or whoever gave and took the information probably wouldn't care that much about a prisoner's name being correct.

Now as for speculation, there seems to be a slight gap in the birth of children in the family. His wife had one child was born in 1868 and the next in 1872. The other children are at regular two year intervals. Up until now I just thought one had died or something. Anyway, it fits that James was away from home for a considerable time. He is back there for good apparently as a number of other children were born, and he was back with the family on the 1881 and 1891 censuses.

I haven't yet decided if I will take this James onboard. I am the kind that would like some sort of further evidence. I wasn't able to find any at the newspapers or NAS. Any other ideas appreciated!

(EDITED TO ADD: There is no gap in the births of the children Catherine O'Bryans was born in 1870...how on earth did I not see that when looking directly at my tree while I was posting!!! Thanks Jack for pointing that out!)

Nina

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:17 pm

Hi Nina,

I had a quick look at the census page. The name is O'Brien. Mc Brien is a mistake (mistranscription?) in SP's index. It wouold be worth dropping them a contact form, particularly if you have spent extra credits on your search because of the mistake. They may well refund some credits to you.

All the best,

AndrewP

Post by **SarahND** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:47 am

ninatoo wrote:I haven't yet decided if I will take this James onboard. I am the kind that would like some sort of further evidence. I wasn't able to find any at the newspapers or NAS. Ay other ideas appreciated!

Hi Nina,
What kind of evidence are you looking for? The family might have needed assistance while he was in prison and there could be records of that. Where were they living?

Regards,
Sarah

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:04 am

Thanks for looking Andrew. So now I feel more confident to look for it. I hadn't spent money on looking for him but I will send SP a contact form anyway.

Sarah the family were living at 29 New Vennel, in Blackfriars, Glasgow. The wife Sarah and three children were living with Sarah's mother Margaret Docherty and four of Sarah's siblings. Six of them had work, so maybe they didn't have to apply for poor relief, but I suppose it would be worth looking into. I was more or less trying to prove that it was my James in prison by trying to find a reference to any crime he committed. But it is looking more like it was him anyway, since he is of the right name age and occupation and he isn't with his family as expected. All others either have a family or are in other employment.

Nina