Can someone have a look please

[crayspond]

Can someone have a look at the following on Ancestry for me?
The last info i have of John Purcell is from the Poor records, his son said they went back to Ireland in 1901. I can't find any trace of him on the 1901 irish census but i have saw this

John Purcell 60 Ireland Lancaster Salford Shoe Maker

He was a shoemaker and will be around the same age - his wife's name is Annie - it would be interesting if she is also on the same census.

Thanks,

Ailsa

[Ann In the UK]

Hey,

Think this is the one in question

Says he's a shoemaker, Bolton. Born Ireland. Looks like some kind of lodging house - 1a Park Place, Salford
No other Purcells listed.

Hope that helps.
Ann

[LesleyB]

Hi Ailsa
You can use the search on the 1901 census site to see if there is anyone of that name in the same area.
http://www.1901censusonline.com/search. ... son_search
I expect you have an age range for Annie and a place of birth, so you are more likely to be able to tell if she is there or not.

...obviously, without paying it does not clarify if the person is the one you are looking for, but sometimes I've found it is enough info to then decide if paying up is worth it or not. It also works better with the more unusual names and names combinations.

Best wishes
Lesley

[crayspond]

Hi Lesley and Ann,

Thanks for the replies - it is purely a long shot as he is meant to be in Ireland in 1901, however he may have stopped off somewhere along the way , maybe to get some work. There is 11 Anne Purcells' showing - but only 2 born in Ireland. One in Manchester age 58 and one in Leeds age 64.
I'll have to get my thinking cap on !

Ailsa

[LesleyB]

Ailsa
There is a John & Anne combination in Ireland in 1901:

• Residents of a house 8 in Lodge (Knigh, Tipperary)
  Purcell John 60 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Shoe Maker
  Purcell Anne 60 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Tipperary
  Purcell Patrick 21 Male Son Roman Catholic

- but maybe you've seen this household already, and they are not the correct ones?

Best wishes
Lesley

[crayspond]

Hi Lesley,

I have looked at this one before - as it is quite near where he was born in Kilkenny. However, They do not have a son Patrick (children listed as dependant in poor records (1886) would have him on there, youngest is Margaret age 7 ) and Ann is listed as Protestant.

Thanks for looking,
Ailsa

[LesleyB]

Hi Ailsa

It seems a bit of an odd coincidence if there are a couple of the names you are searching for, he is a shoemaker (which I'm gathering is tallying with what you know already of him), he appears to be aged around what you were expecting and they are there in Ireland in 1901 as you were led to believe by the Poor Law documents.

I have one Irish family who, although living in Lanarkshire, for some reason which I'm not too sure about; I suspect poverty, sent their eldest son to Ireland to grow up with the grandparents (in the late 1800s). He does not appear with them in a census, because he is not there, he is in Ireland. The Poor Law application does mention him, however, and states he is not with them, but with his grandparents in Ireland.

I've another from the same family, this time based in Ireland, who, having been widowed at a young age, left for USA, leaving her several children; two with relatives and two in an orphanage (again, probably a "needs must" situation) and was not able to send for her children until she had the money to pay thier passage to America, by which time her "children" were all adults in their late teens or early 20s.

So, bearing these cases in mind (and I've only seen cases like these with my Irish branches) I just wonder if Patrick is a son who has grown up apart from his parents for some reason or other, but now they are back in Ireland, he is with them? I reckon that family in Tipperary are worth a wee bit more digging, even if it is just to prove they are NOT the ones you are looking for.

They do not have a son Patrick (children listed as dependant in poor records (1886) would have him on there, youngest is Margaret age 7 ) and Ann is listed as Protestant

.
Have you seen the original of the Poor Law record, or is it a transcription you are working from? Bear in mind too that errors occur on census returns. Have you a copy anywhere (birth of child in Scotland?) of John's signature? Does it look anything like the one on the census page? Note too that in the 1901 census return there is another Purcell nearby in the same Townland, Catherine Purcell, who may or may not be connected and who appears to be running a public house. And a Katie Purcell aged 24 who is a head of household - may not be connected?

Best wishes
Lesley

[LesleyB]

Is this the correct family in 1881?

15 William St, Barony, Lanark, Scotland
John PURCELL 44 Ireland, Head, Shoemaker
Annie PURCELL 40 Ireland, Wife
Mary PURCELL 14 Ireland, Dau,Messenger
Wm. PURCELL 12 Ireland, Son, Scholar
Matilda PURCELL 9 Glasgow, Dau, Scholar
John PURCELL 7 Glasgow, Son, Scholar
Charlotte PURCELL 4 Glasgow, Dau, Scholar
Margaret PURCELL 2 Glasgow, Dau

- if this is them, who registered the births in Glasgow of Matilda, John, Charlotte and Margaret?
Who do they have with them in 1891?
Do any of the kids marry in Scotland? Can you work out a death window for John from the marriages?

[nelmit]

Here's who Jack (who transcribed the poorhouse application) had marked as John in 1901-

Could these two John PURCELs in Glasgow be "yours"?
Ages are near enough right. GROS has John, 62, indexed as PARCEL.
--
1901 cens 644-5 Ed 48 p 3 (Blackfriars)
48 Duke St. Lodging House.
John PURCEL, lodger, marrd, 62, Shoemaker, b Ireland ........[line 7]
John PURCEL, lodger, u/m, 29, Iron works labr, b Ireland ...[line 11]

Regards,
Annette

[LesleyB]

Hi Annette

Thanks for remembering we'd seen this family before. I'd trust Jack's transcription, and his Johns look to be likely suspects for father and son, (apart from John jun. being listed as b. Ireland) but it is so difficult to tell if they are in a lodging house....it always is with institutions, because folk are out of context and with so many in the one building, I'm sure more errors crept in. ....did you follow this one up at the time Ailsa? Are these ones definately NOT yours?

Earlier post with a bit more background on the family & Jack's transcription are at:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11168&p=87254&hilit ... ger#p87254
Poor Law app. seems to suggest parents are in Belfast (if John jnr was telling the truth, which he may not have been... )

There is also a 21 Nov 1901 application for son William PURCELL, 36 (wife Margaret CRAIG).
It states that his parents...
"John Purcell, shoemaker & Ann Gray in Belfast, but cannot tell address"

Best wishes
Lesley