deceased father adopted

[Rach]

Can anyone tell me if the next of kin can find out about someone born in 1933 and adopted at some point after that? The person has been deceased for 20 years and his adopted parents are also deceased. They had no other children. So far I can only find information for searches by living people or the following from the NAS website:

'exceptionally, and on application to the court that originally dealt with the adoption, a person other than the adoptee may be allowed to inspect the adoption process. This is very rare and is usually only granted for reasons such as medical grounds. Once it has been examined, the packet of process papers is resealed in the presence of the person who has read them. All enquiries are kept confidential and the NRS keeps no permanent record of the names or other details of people who have looked at their adoption papers."

There are no medical grounds so does this mean that the deceased's children have no right of access to the records?
The records are kept at NRH.
Thanks,
Rach

[carolineasb]

Hi Rach,

My understanding is that it is a matter for a Sheriff in Scotland to allow an adoption "sealed process" (the case papers) to be opened up, even for the adopted person. It may be that, if say the child of a deceased adopted person were able to prove the death of that person (with the appropriate certificates), show identification to the Court of their relationship etc, and the reasons for wishing to read the paperwork, then the Sheriff may allow the process to be brought to that Court and opened up. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

You can find your local Sheriff Court on the Scottish Court Service website and their contact details.

Do you definitely know that this person was adopted formally through the Court?

Regards

Carolineasb

[LesleyB]

Hi

My understanding is that it is a matter for a Sheriff in Scotland to allow an adoption "sealed process" (the case papers) to be opened up, even for the adopted person.

An adopted person can see their own records without having to consult any Sherriff- they only need to make an appointment to view the records and bring proof of ID with them.

I am not sure what the situation would be for the child of the adopted person, and without getting on my soap box, I believe it to be the right of anyone to know who they are, especially when the records exisit - there should be no barrier to prevent that knowledge being made available to those it affects. It is, IMHO, a basic human right. Sad that many countries and the law in some places do not always agree...

My understanding is that the adoption records in Scotland are closed for 100years, but think, on the whole, Scotland is perhaps a good place for the records you wish to see to be located (certainly better than some!) - If, as Caroline mentions, your father was legally adopted, so there are papers in existence, I'm sure there will be a way to view them Rachel, but it may not be quite as straightforward as it may have been had you had been the adopted person. Let us know how you get on. And try giving Birthlink a phone for some advice as to what your options are - they may save you a lot of searching for info as to what steps to take.... http://www.birthlink.org.uk/contact.htm

Do you have a copy of his birth cetificate? If he was legally adopted, you should be able to tell from that document - it will say something along the lines of "Extract from the adoption register" - will check the wording and get back to you.
Best wishes
Lesley

Later: the wording along the top of an adopted child's full birth certificate says: "Extract of an entry in the ADOPTED CHILDREN REGISTER" or similar, but it may have chnaged over the years. Adoption was only made a legal process in 1930, so given that your father's adoption occurred not long after that date, the situation, and the wording, may be slightly different. The example I have quoted is from between 1950-65, and comes after the Adoption Act of 1958 - these dates are both mentioned on the cert.

[Rach]

Caroline and Lesley,
Thank you both so much for your replies. It is not for myself that I was asking but for a close friend. I am not sure what documentation they hold about their father but will pass on all your information. If they wish to take this further, and I think they will, I will let you know what happens.
I think it is right that these documents should be difficult to access but I agree with Lesley that the offspring of a deceased person should be able to access any documents to find out 'who they are'.
I also thought this would be of interest to others who may find themselves in a similar position.
Thanks again.
Rach

[carolineasb]

Hi again,

From my previous employment AND previous experience with people whom I personally know who are adopted, I reiterate that it is my understanding that in Scotland, if an adopted person wishes to see their own adoption papers, then they must apply in writing to a Sheriff to do this as, in a formal adoption, it was the Court who granted the original adoption. Further, they are closed and sealed and not normally ever opened unless the adopted person applies to see these papers. These papers can be viewed at the adopted persons nearest Sheriff Court once a Sheriff has allowed them to be opened and on production of appropriate identification.

What you say, Lesley, is not my experience in Scotland and I cannot understand that happening as how can anyone open up a sealed and private Court Process without leave of the Court?

Regards

Carolineasb

[LesleyB]

Hi Caroline

As an adopted person in Scotland who has viewed their own adoption records, what you mention was not my experience. There was no need to make any applicaiton to any court. I am well aware that they are closed and sealed - I have seen this for myself both before and after viewing my own files.

These papers can be viewed at the adopted persons nearest Sheriff Court once a Sheriff has allowed them to be opened and on production of appropriate identification.

Not in my case they couldn't - the files are sent to NAS after a certain period of time has elapsed - I can't remember precisely off the top of my head what period must elapse before this happens.

Also see: http://www.nas.gov.uk/guides/adoptions.asp

Where are the legal records of adoptions kept?
The records of adoptions originating in the Court of Session are kept at that court for five years. The records of adoptions in sheriff courts are generally kept in the local courthouse for up to 25 years after the process closed. All of these records will eventually come to the Legal Search Room of the National Records of Scotland (NRS). As a general rule, if an adoption took place less than 25 years ago, you should contact the court (or the NRS) to confirm where the records are, before making a visit.

Who can inspect the legal records of an adoption?
Adoption processes are among the most confidential records held in the courts and the NRS and they are closed to general public access for 100 years. This means that the staff of the NRS are also forbidden to examine them. Each process is individually sealed and the indexes themselves are restricted. The processes may, however, be opened to access in the following circumstances:
to the adopted person if he or she is over 16 years of age. They must produce their birth certificate (to prove that they are adopted), together with some independent proof of their identity (passport, driving licence, staff pass from place of employment, etc).

Things to do before coming to inspect adoption papers:
If you want to see your adoption papers, please do not visit us without notice. Contact us in advance so that we can ensure that your visit is not wasted. This advance notice will allow us to check that we do in fact have the appropriate records. We can then have them out waiting for your arrival. It will avoid your having to sit waiting while we work through the complicated indexes. Our telephone number is 0131 535 1355 or 0131 535 1383.

Obviously, the situation is likely to be very different for Rach's friend trying to view her father's records as it will not be the adopted person themselves requesting to view the files. I am not at all sure what proceedure will be required, what the outcome might be, but I wish her every success with it.

Best wishes
Lesley

[Rach]

Many thanks to you both. I will pass on your messages and he can decide what to do. He isn't a member of this forum so I said that I would enquire for him. I'm sure one of the agencies will point him in the right direction.
Rach

[Rach]

Since my last visit to this board we have discovered bits and pieces that have guided us to the adoption. The baby's mother died 3 days after the birth and he was then adopted by his maternal aunt. This helped to guide us to the birth. Up until the time I offered to help him my friend hadn't spoken to the distant family member who was able to give us enough information to find what we needed. As you can imagine my friend is delighted to have found this information without having to go through any formal process.
Thank you so much for your replies.
Rach

[LesleyB]

Hi Rach

Great to hear some progress has been made and some vital information found out. Thanks for the update!

Best wishes
Lesley