Trying my brickwall one more time.....

CathieL · Post by **CathieL** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:29 am

Hello everyone
I have decided to have another go at my brick wall. I have placed a Poor Law Record in the Gallery http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-293 and I am hoping someone can make more sense of it than I can. I have looked at it so many times my eyes are crossing

. Patrick is my grandfather and I am trying to figure out his mother's name. Is it McQuade or Coyle. I have tried all combinations of Kelly, Mcquade, Connelly, Coyle and I can't find her in any census or the IGI. Any suggestions please?
Cathie

url added by Jean

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:30 pm

Think Patrick was a bit confused!

His first marriage to Annie Hendry in 1886 lists his parents as Patrick and Helen MS Kelly.

Annies parents were Michael Hendry and Catherine Reid both deceased so Patrick probably never knew them.

For his second marriage Patrick lists JOSEPH and Ellen McQuade

Catherine Stewart's parents were Joseph and Margaret Campbell both deceased so he probably didn't know them either.

Helen Kelly died in 1917, widow of Thomas Kelly a fruit dealer her father was reported as Thomas McQuade and the mother Helen COYLE

The key to it all may lie in Patrick's half sister Ellen Kelly, born to Thomas and Ellen McQuade in about 1871. Ellen Kelly may have been born before the mother formally tied the knot with Thomas Kelly (though I can't see this marriage anywhere).

In 1891 a Hair Carder Ellen Kelly is staying with widow Mary Connelly (maider name Byrne from Donegal), Her Husband was John Connoly and I think they married in Glasgow in 1861 but had two children in Dublin before returning to Glasgow. I'm fairly sure that John was Patrick Connoly's uncle brother in law to Helen McQuade.

I'll look into this further ...............

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:07 pm

On Ellen Kelly's marriage the witnesses are William Kelly and Bridget Kelly.

In 1872 a Bridget Kelly was born to Thomas and Ellen McQuade Castleblayney, Monaghan, Ireland. They also had daughters Ellen in 1868 and Mary in 1874

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:09 pm

In 1901 John and Ellen (Kelly) Nugent are staying at 78 Greenside Lane, Gorbals. Ellen and John were both born in Ireland.

Their children were:

William 2
Patrick 7 months
John 13 !!! Born Ireland
Thomas 6 born Lanark

Remember Ellen didn't marry John Nugent until 1896 in Glasgow.

More importantly "Birds of a Feather" occurs yet again.

At the top of the page at the same address there is:

Ellen Kelly (mother) 52 Fruit Seller born Ireland
Thomas Kelly (father) 52 Fruit Seller born Ireland.

They were staying with William 25, his wife, Mary 25, both born in Ireland and two children Catherine 4 and Ellen 14 months.

I'm fairly sure that this part of the family didn't arrive in Scotland until after 1891. But since Ellen Kelly in 1891 was a Hair Carder and the Ellen who married in 1896 was a "Hair Factory Worker" it's probably the same person.

Finding them on the 1901 census puts a bit of a spanner in the works. If Ellen Kelly was 52 in 1901 and Patrick was 42 in 1907 it means that Ellen was only 16 at the time of Patricks birth. Not impossible but still fairly young.

Patrick age 38 born Ireland was still living with Catherine in 1901 they had two boys Charles 3 and Patrick. Patrick must have died before 1907 and James born after the census.

However on his marriage to Catherine Stewart in 1898 he is CLEARLY listed as 45 on his earlier marriage to Annie Hendry in 1886 he says he was 21

This MAY be Patrick in 1881:

Dwelling: Clydeford Ho
Census Place: Rutherglen, Lanark, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203703 GRO Ref Volume 654 EnumDist 20 Page 40
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Francis MC VEY M 25 M Tyrone Co, Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Chemical Worker Labourer
Bridget C. MC VEY M 21 F Monaghan, Ireland
Rel: Wife
Michael MC VEY 2 M Rutherglen, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
John F. MC VEY 3 m M Rutherglen, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Son
Charles CONNOLLY U 27 M Monaghan Co, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Brother In Law
Occ: Chemical Worker Labourer
Patrick CONNOLLY U 23 M Monaghan Co, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Brother In Law
Occ: Chemical Worker Labourer
Susan CONNOLLY 10 F Monaghan Co, Lanark, Scotland
Rel: Sister In Law
Occ: Scholar

He has a brother Charles (the name of his first son) and comes from the same place as the Thomas Kelly and Ellen McQuade

The plot thickens further. Patrick's first wife died early in 1891 aged 26. The marriage cert gives an address in Rose Street

In 1891 a Patrick Connelly 47 can be found at Rose Street with wife Kate 45 and a son John 15

There is also a Patrick Connelly 34 with wife Catherine 37 (a cotton spinner) Patricks second wife was also a cotton spinner.

There's another widower aged 42 but he's not yours.

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:53 pm

Annie (Hendry) Connelly died at 4 South Shamrock Street in March 1891. Rose Street address on first Marriage cert.

Same Rose Street address on second marriage to Catherine Stewart.

Previous accommodation included Wellington Street where a Patrick Connelly (widower) was staying in 1891 but NOT yours.

Patrick and Catherine were in South Wellington Street in 1901

Another previous address was Govan Street where young Ellen Kelly was boarding with Mary Connolly in 1891.

This lot are difficult to sort out.

CathieL · Post by **CathieL** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:34 pm

Thank you Andy, I am away from home today but I will post some more of what I have tonight when I can get to my notes. I followed the Ellen Kelly Nugent line and I saw that on the 1901 census for the Nugents the Kellys were at the top of the page. I checked out the William they were staying with. His name is Connelly but his marriage cert. says his parents are Joseph Connolly and Helen Coyle! This plot is so thick you could stand spoons in it.
Catherine had illegitimate twins before she married Patrick (one died at birth) so Charles is Patrick's stepson. James (my father) was born in 1902. Charles and James were the only two of all the children to live to adulthood and Charles used the name Stewart all his life. To complicate it some more Catherine herself was illegitimate but I don't think she knew that. I have the death cert. for Helen McQuade Kelly but when I looked at the death cert for her husband Thomas the information is the same as given for Helen and the informant was the same Wm. Kelly
The patience of a saint is what I need

Jean thank you for fixing my attempt at the gallery

CathieL · Post by **CathieL** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:17 am

I think this maybe Patrick in the 1891 census.
56 Surrey Street Tradeston
Patrick Connolly Boarder Widower 26 general labourer.
From everything I have on him I am pretty sure he was born 1865-66.
1886 marriage to Annie he was 21
1891 census he was 26
1898 marriage to Catherine 45 (this has to be a mistake)
1901 census South Wellington Street he was 35
1907 Poor Law he was 42
1939 death cert he was 73.
Helen Kelly's death certificate, 1919, widow of Thomas Kelly fruit dealer.
Parents Thomas McQuade and Helen McQuade ms Coyle.
Thomas Kelly's death certificate, 1906, married to Helen Coyle,
Parents Thomas Kelly and Helen Kelly ms McQuade.
Informant for Helen, Wm. Kelly 52 Rose Street South
Informant for Thomas, Wm. Kelly present (68 St.James Street).
1901 census 78 Greenside Lane Thomas and Helen Kelly, fruit dealers, parents of William CONNELLY?.
William's marriage certificate, parents Thomas Connelly and Ellen Connelly ms Coyle.
WHat are the odds I will ever get this mess sorted

Cathie