Can anyone read this handwriting?.....

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:10 pm

Hi Everyone

I have uploaded a death cert onto the gallery on this URL:-

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-295

The entry I have an interest in is No 613 - Robert Allan - aged 4 - who died following an accident in September, 1914. He was run down by a horse and cart in Bo'ness, West Lothian. Robert was the 1st child of my grandparents Robert Allan and Mary Alexander. He died in Royal Hospital for Sick Children in Edinburgh a few days after the accident. To add to the tragedy for the family his father Robert was in France with the BEF at the outbreak of WW1 and did not know of the death until some time later.

I can read everything on the entry relating to Robert - but in the margin there is an entry (I have turned the cert around so that the entry can be seen)- some of which I can read as folows:-

Result of Procognition ----- Reg -------- Vol 11 P 54(or 64) 26 Sept 1914

Can anyone hazard a guess at the words between precognition and reg and again between reg and vol.

I think that the procognition most likely refers to the Procurator Fiscal having an enquiry into the circumstances of the accident and interviewing the certifying doctor. If this is the case I may be able to get further info from the courts / crown office. Also what records would the the volume and page number refer to - I would not think it would be within the death register.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

Thanks lots

Ted

Post by **Ina** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:20 pm

Hi Ted,

Looks like "see register of corrected entries"

Regards,

Ina

Post by **AndrewP** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:52 pm

Hi Ted,

Result of Precog.
See Reg. of Cor.
Entr. Vol 11 p.68
14 Nov, 1914

Numerous abbreviations have been used by the registars over the years for "Register of Corrected Entries". Followed by a volume and page number and the date.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:44 pm

Hi Ina & Andrew

Thanks for your prompt replies - I agree with you both that is what is written on the entry. Would I have to go to NRH to view the Register of Corrected Entries - or would it be held at the local Registrar's Office for the district - appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks lots

Ted

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:46 pm

Ted

All that you are likely to find in the RCE entry is confirmation of the date, time, place and cause of death. I'd doubt if there was a Fatal Accident Enquiry.

David

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:08 pm

David

Thanks for the info - I did not expect that there would have been a FAE - but I did hope that I could glean some info from the precognition statement - is that likely?

What I really need is where this child was born - I know it was in 1910 in either Bo'ness or Aberdeen. I have the family in Bo'ness 1909 - 10 on the Valuation Rolls for the town. But I know that the father (Robert Allan) travelled alone to the US in August 1911 and returned in Nov that year. My efforts are trying to establish where the child Robert and his mother (Mary Alexander) were in 1910 and 1911 - they may have been with her husband's family in Aberdeen and the child's place of birth might help establish this.

Thanks lots for your efforts.

Ted

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:02 pm

Ted wrote:David

Thanks for the info - I did not expect that there would have been a FAE - but I did hope that I could glean some info from the precognition statement - is that likely?

Only if the PF records survive. Best to contact NAS, - see the Sources tab on the home page here, and see what they advise.

Ted wrote:What I really need is where this child was born - I know it was in 1910 in either Bo'ness or Aberdeen. I have the family in Bo'ness 1909 - 10 on the Valuation Rolls for the town. But I know that the father (Robert Allan) travelled alone to the US in August 1911 and returned in Nov that year. My efforts are trying to establish where the child Robert and his mother (Mary Alexander) were in 1910 and 1911 - they may have been with her husband's family in Aberdeen and the child's place of birth might help establish this.

Thanks lots for your efforts.

Ted

With a surname like that, there's going to be many candidates which means that searching on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk may not be cost effective.

On a visit to New Register House in Edinburgh, however, once you have paid the entry fee for the day, - £17/full day, £10/half day (from 1pm onwards), - you can view as many records as you want to. The same now at Park Circus and now, or soon, other similar such local centres (but the costs will vary).

It shouldn't take too long to scan through the possibilities here as all the records are available at your search place as digitised images on the screen in front of you, - including those under the surname of the mother - can't see if you gave a marriage date.

And you are most fortunate in being an Embra resident

David

m

Post by **paddyscar** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:08 am

AndrewP wrote:Hi Ted,

Result of Precog.
See Reg. of Cor.
Entr. Vol 11 p.68
14 Nov, 1914

Numerous abbreviations have been used by the registars over the years for "Register of Corrected Entries". Followed by a volume and page number and the date.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

Sorry to step in here, but the above entry is beside the name Thomas O'Donnell, not Robert Allen. Just in case you copied into your notes directly from the screen ... the entry reads (As close to Andrew's as you can get, but with different ref numbers)

Result of Precognition
Vol Reg Of Cor. Entry.
Vol II p 64
26 Sept 1914

Frances

Post by **AndrewP** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:09 am

Hi Frances,

You are right to correct me.

I read the RCE annotation that was in front of me when I viewed the image. The magnification was set at 200% and that is all that was in view. Now, having read your reply I have gone back to the image and I see I was looking at the wrong section of the page, leading to the RCE four entries away from the correct one (page 64, instead of page 68); plus the Volume number could be II (two) or 11 (eleven).

Result of Precognition
Reg Of Cor. Entr. ("Vol" at the start of this line is scored out)
Vol 11 p 64 (could be "11" or "II")
26 Sept 1914

The RCE books continue over whatever timespan it takes to fill each book for that Registration District. In rural Registration Disticts, this can be over many years, and are numbered in sequence over the years. As this certificate is from Newington (in the City of Edinburgh), and that Registration District had been operating in that name since 1859 (and from 1855 as "Newington and Grange") it is more likely, but not proven, that this will be RCE Volume 11 rather than Volume 2.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:47 am

Andrew / Frances / David

My grateful thanks to all of you for your advice - I had noticed that Andrew had advised on the other margin note on the certificate - but did not think it worth mentioning as it was in the same volume of corrected entries. Andrew my apologies - I must have uploaded the document somewhat wrongly to have it magnified so much.

I never cease to be amazed by how helpful everyone on TS can be - 'lang may yer lum reek'

Thanks lots

Ted