Illegitimate births.....

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:52 am

Why would a mother supply a false name for an illegitimate birth?

In the 1901 census of the Thomas Carson family, there is a granddaughter....an Elizabeth Crombie aged 7. I found this odd because Crombie is the wife's maiden name. So on investigation I found Elizabeth's mother is listed as Margarret Crombie...

Margaret Crombie is the married name of the wife's mother.

The only child of Thomas' who could be the mother is Mary, aged about 26 in 1901. Mary had already given birth to an illegitimate child in 1891, but it died the same year. She gave her correct name and address then.

Assuming I am right that she is the mother, what may have been the reasons she lied, apart from shame?

Bryan · Post by **Bryan** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:50 pm

you're assuming it's false but that means Mary Carson registered the birth as Margaret Crombie if I follow your thread. Changing both names seems a bit OTT.

Another possibilty is that before marrying Thomas "the wife" (un-named) had an illigitimate daughter she called Margaret (perhaps after her mother) and that this daughter has in turn had a daughter of her own called Elizabeth.

Also possible that Elizabeth is not a grand-daughter but some other relation maybe a grand-niece - found more than once where the relationship is mis-described (at least to modern thinking) after you get away from brother, sister etc.

Only way to be totally sure is to do a bit more digging into all the family relationships.

If Eliz is indeed daughter to Mary, then your guess is as good as mine as to why she registered under a false name.

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:23 am

Thanks for the advice Bryan. I will have to be careful assuming things...hehe.

I have actually just discovered another family group in the same area at the same time. Perhaps this child belongs to them, but you are right, I will have to do more digging.

Thanks again,

Nina

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:52 am

Nina

Bryan is very right in that relationship terms, - even son and daughter, - were used much more loosely back then, and as for "grand" relationships, and nephew/niece, never mind "step-" and "in-law"

Thomas's wife Elizabeth is shown as 47 in 1901 so that I'd think it to be unlikely, but far from impossible, that the 7 year old is her child. Much more likely to be the child of a sister of Thomas's wife.

As both Thomas and Elizabeth were born in Ireland, there's only a limited amount, if anything, that can be done to find siblings of Elizabeth in Scotland, but Thomas' wife Elizabeth's Scottish death register entry, - on ScotlandsPeople,- will give you the name of her parents, so that you can go looking in Ireland, - probably Co. Down or at least Ulster from the place of marriage of Thomas and Elizabeth.

The family were already in Irvine in 1881 but there's no clues to this situation in the 1881 entry:

Dwelling: Halfway Priv Ho
Census Place: Dundonald, Ayr, Scotland
Source: FHL Film 0203599 GRO Ref Volume 595 EnumDist 8 Page 12
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Thomas CARSON M 28 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: General Dealer
Elizabeth CARSON M 28 F Ireland
Rel: Wife
William John CARSON 7 M Irvine, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Mary CARSON 6 F Irvine, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Daur
James CARSON 4 M Irvine, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Archd. CARSON 2 M Irvine, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Joseph CARSON 4 m M Irvine, Ayr, Scotland
Rel: Son
Wm. DUNLOP U 23 M Ireland
Rel: Lodger
Occ: Labr (Chemical)

David

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:10 am

Thanks for that David!

I should have mentioned that I have the family on the 1881 1891 and 1901 censuses, but thanks all the same for that.

I already know the family came from Rathfryland, Co. Down, according to birth certificates of the Carson children. And I know that Elizabeth's parents were James Crombie and Margaret McCulloch. I just can't find any more children for them!

Still, I will try harder.

Thanks again, Nina