Irregular marriage - irregular goings on?

[Lorna Allison]

Would the fact that, after spending a lot of money with SP, I am still unable to trace the birth of a simple Margaret Dick, in 1878, perhaps be down to the fact that she could be 2nd wife Ellison's illegitimate child or someone else's wean altogether, brought up to believe that her mother is Ellison Dick ms Laird who married Robert Dick in an irregular marriage 24 Oct 1883.

Robert Dick married Elizabeth Adams 29 Dec 1871 and was alive living with him (no children in the house) at the 1881 Census.

The American cousins, Margaret's grandchildren, (who seem loath to pick up the baton and delve into genealogy) have her birthdate as 19 Oct 1878 and her mother as Ellison.

How unusual was an irregular marriage? Would you only choose to marry that way because the Church was frowning on your domestic arrangements?

Any hints gratefully received.

Lorna

[Tracey]

Hello Lorna

As for the Marriage...................
There are quite a few posts about this subject on TS and reading them there is nothing unusual in an Irregular Marriage that ive seen.
I saw on GROS

Irregular marriages were entered into by persons who took advantage of the principle in Scots Law that marriage was constituted by mutual consent. The form of contract generally adopted was a simple written declaration of acceptance of each other as husband and wife.

On one of the posts David suggested to do a search on here for Irregular AND Marriages , also doing a Google search brings back answers. May cure your curiosity until tea time when its busy on here

[DavidWW]

........snipped.............How unusual was an irregular marriage? Would you only choose to marry that way because the Church was frowning on your domestic arrangements?

Any hints gratefully received.

Lorna

Fascinating questions

There were many different reasons for an irregular marriage.

Whether it's possible ever to put a figure on the number I don't know.

I can go for several weeks without coming across a single one, then see 10 in one day !!

It should be possible to put a value on a minimum figure by establishing how many marriage register entries were on the basis of the Sheriff's Warrant and similar procedures, but was that proportion 10%, or 50%, or 90% ....................... I don't know if this figure already exists in the annual reports of the Registrar General.

But that figure can only ever be a minimum as one of the few certainties in this situation is that not every couple who went the irregular route then used the Sheriff's Warrant procedure, The total number of marriages registered in Scotland in 1855 was 19,680. rising to 28,380 40 years later in 1995.

It's tempting to think that the number of births initially registered as illegitimate where there was later confirmation via an RCE confirimg the subsequent marriage of the parents helps, but I don't think that it does on reflection.

Perhaps the social security authorities have some helpful figures in terms of widows' pensions where there wasn't a marriage certificate available but it could be demonstrated that the couple were married by habit and repute, - possibly originally a marriage by declaration, but no witnesses left to prove that ....................

Anybody else got any ideas??

David

[sporran]

Hello Lorna,


the rules were straightforward. For illegitimate births, the father's surname could be used only if father and mother signed the birth register. In that case, the birth would be indexed under both surnames. So searching for Margaret Laird is the route to take.

Working backwards, Ellison was 34 when she married in Hutchesontown, and her parents were David Laird and Jane ms Neilson. After a little difficulty, I found them (without David) in Rutherglen, but Ellison was recorded as Ellen. Young Margaret was 2, born Govan. A search for Margaret Laird born in Govan during 1878 finds her, and there is a RCE for paternity. To get the RCE you will need to order the certificate, pay a researcher, ask a favour of someone visitng NRH, visit yourself, or wait for RCEs to come online.

As an aside, it's always best to use M*G* for searches, since it will pick up Maggie, Margret, and Margt.


Regards,

John

[Lorna Allison]

Oh John!

FANTASTIC!

I have her now and that makes two of those 'RCE' things I've got to look up. Haven't had any dealings with researchers so far, although I am thinking about it for two very different knotty problems. Might go down to Edinburgh as I have to go to the Nat Archive sometime.

Do you have to get in touch with NRH beforehand and give them the RCE details? Bye the way what does RCE stand for - Register of ? Entries ?

I'm so grateful, can't tell you how much. You haven't got a relative buried in Perthshire whose MI I could copy or something!?

Thanks again.

Lorna

[HeatherH]

Hi Lorna,
RCE= Register of Corrected Entries,and you don't have to contact NRH ahead of time to view them.You can fill out a slip while there and will have it in a trice.
Happy Hunting,
HeatherK

[Lorna Allison]

Thanks for that Heather. That is another jaunt chalked up.

Lorna

[sporran]

Hello Lorna,


it is a pleasure to help someone overcome problems: thanks are sufficient reward, but you kindly offered MI lookups. Do not go out of your way, but two relations died in Perth town (not necessarily buried there):
William Morrison (ca 1812 - 20 Apr 1874) was living in Cow Vennels;
Mabel Rhoda Neale (3 Jan 1892 - 18 Apr 1949) was single, a schoolteacher, and was living at Glasgow Road.

RCE is Register of Corrected Entries and is used to add or correct information on a certificate after the Registrar or Assistant has signed it. Results of paternity actions and death investigations by the Procurator Fiscal are common reasons for RCEs.

It is best to book a place at NRH. Each station has a terminal and fiche reader and the RCE will be brought to you on a fiche. Fill out one of the forms at your station with the original GROS reference and that of the RCE. An attendant may arrive, scratch his head, and look at your screen, but that is common. The RCE will arrive, usually in 10 minutes. It is an easy process and the staff will help.

As for NAS, I visited once and did not find a suspected Catholic birth before statutory registration, but I spent a lot of the time wandering around with my jaw dropping at the size and contents of the place. There was a peculiar thrill in having an original church book from 150 years ago brought to me to read.


Regards,

John

[Lorna Allison]

Hi John

I'll get on to that and be in touch - sometime soon I hope - but it has been a wee bit cold here. Looking a bit better today though.

Bye for now and thanks again.

Lorna