I wonder if anyone can help with my brick wall?
I was born in Sussex at the start of WW2, and within months was taken by my mother and left with elderly (to me!) relative, who was called Granny Gray, in Blantyre, Lanarkshire. At no time did I ever learn what her christian name was, (but she had a daughter, Isabella whom I called Aunty). In reality I realise she too must have been an aunt, possibly married to a brother of my grandmother's sister's husband. This was Great Aunt Agnes (Campbell) who had married John Gray in 1918. His dob is 1896, son of Thomas and Isabella (nee Thomson).
My mother spoke little of her family, apparently there had been some sort of religious feud Some of the family were Catholic and some Protestant, my mother being the latter, and there the conversation would close.
''Granny'' Gray was a leading light in the Salvation Army, but I have tried without success to access any detail about her. I think she would probably have been in her fifties/sixties in 1940, difficult to tell as she wore black all the time as she had no husband around (dead?).
Likewise, I have so little knowledge of Thomas and Isabella to go on, but think he may have been born c1865 probably somewhere like Motherwell or Cambuslang as from what I can see from other information, together with Blantyre, these 3 areas are favourite in the family!
With so little hard fact about these people I am going round in circles, can anyone suggest a way to break through?
I'd appreciate any help.
Great Aunt Gray .....
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Great Aunt Gray .....
Researching Campbells around Glasgow, Blantyre and Grays in Blantyre and Ayrshire
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Hello DorothyG and welcome!
I'm going around in a few circles myself but there are a couple of pointers that might help you along here. First off not sure if you've ever used the Scotland's People website for research? It's pay per view but you can print off actual copies of the statutory records. It's very easy to search for the death of females especially if they married by using all surnames known to them. (Of course this is only effective at the moment if you need death records prior to 1956. The current ones have to be accessed in other various methods......)
Now...for example.... the death of Isabella (mn Thomson) GRAY is just waiting there in Blantyre to be viewed. From this you see she also had a son Fred and lived to a good advanced age. A search for a daughter born to her named Isabella also pops one up easily as she was given the middle name of her mother's maiden name. This Isabella would have been a sister to your John. I'm wondering if these Isabella's might have been the mother daughter duo that you recall.....did you remember when your Granny Gray died?
I'm sure there is a lot that can be unraveled on this one if you spend a little time searching on SP!....but please come back and ask more questions if you have them!!!!
Best wishes
Jean
I'm going around in a few circles myself but there are a couple of pointers that might help you along here. First off not sure if you've ever used the Scotland's People website for research? It's pay per view but you can print off actual copies of the statutory records. It's very easy to search for the death of females especially if they married by using all surnames known to them. (Of course this is only effective at the moment if you need death records prior to 1956. The current ones have to be accessed in other various methods......)
Now...for example.... the death of Isabella (mn Thomson) GRAY is just waiting there in Blantyre to be viewed. From this you see she also had a son Fred and lived to a good advanced age. A search for a daughter born to her named Isabella also pops one up easily as she was given the middle name of her mother's maiden name. This Isabella would have been a sister to your John. I'm wondering if these Isabella's might have been the mother daughter duo that you recall.....did you remember when your Granny Gray died?
I'm sure there is a lot that can be unraveled on this one if you spend a little time searching on SP!....but please come back and ask more questions if you have them!!!!
Best wishes
Jean
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Hi Dorothy
I've got my thinking cap on - but at least there is a bright side! these people were in Scotland, so any records you can find on them are likley to yield a fair bit of information!
I'm a bit lost though, please help me out!
- what was Isabella's surname - was she married to a Gray or was she a Gray?
Is great aunt Agnes the sister of Granny Gray? If not, who is she?
And John Gray is the son of Thomas Gray and Isabella (nee Thomson)? So does that mean John Gray is a brother to Granny Gray or brother in law?? (trying to cover all angles here - it is always possible Granny Gray might not have been married at all... )
Once I have this clear in my head it will help...
Best wishes
Lesley
I've got my thinking cap on - but at least there is a bright side! these people were in Scotland, so any records you can find on them are likley to yield a fair bit of information!
I'm a bit lost though, please help me out!
- what was Isabella's surname - was she married to a Gray or was she a Gray?
Is great aunt Agnes the sister of Granny Gray? If not, who is she?
And John Gray is the son of Thomas Gray and Isabella (nee Thomson)? So does that mean John Gray is a brother to Granny Gray or brother in law?? (trying to cover all angles here - it is always possible Granny Gray might not have been married at all... )
Once I have this clear in my head it will help...
Best wishes
Lesley
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Wow!! Jean and Lesley
What lovely people! You've given me hope!
I have tried Scotlands People, without too much success, and have just gone round in circles, but what info you have found is further than I have... thank you, that's marvellous!
'Granny Gray' is not my GtAunt Agnes's sister I don't think, cos Agnes was a Campbell before marrying John Gray.... that's why I thought if she was married (and you're quite right to ? whether she was, despite being in the Sally Army! ). There never was a ''husband'' figure; however the really great find you've made is that Isabella and Thomas also had a son, Fred. I recollect an Uncle Fred who lived in Cambuslang and had a corner shop selling sweeties! It is entirely possible that 'Granny' Gray may have been the daughter Isabella, and her daughter was named after herself.
I seem to recollect learning that 'Granny' Gray died in the 60s or early 70s (my mother died in '73 and it was her who told me).
I don't seem to get around ScotsPeople site too well - and get a lot of poor results from my input; I'm obviously not doing something quite right, but with your encouragement I must try again.
Thankyou Dorothy
What lovely people! You've given me hope!
I have tried Scotlands People, without too much success, and have just gone round in circles, but what info you have found is further than I have... thank you, that's marvellous!
'Granny Gray' is not my GtAunt Agnes's sister I don't think, cos Agnes was a Campbell before marrying John Gray.... that's why I thought if she was married (and you're quite right to ? whether she was, despite being in the Sally Army! ). There never was a ''husband'' figure; however the really great find you've made is that Isabella and Thomas also had a son, Fred. I recollect an Uncle Fred who lived in Cambuslang and had a corner shop selling sweeties! It is entirely possible that 'Granny' Gray may have been the daughter Isabella, and her daughter was named after herself.
I seem to recollect learning that 'Granny' Gray died in the 60s or early 70s (my mother died in '73 and it was her who told me).
I don't seem to get around ScotsPeople site too well - and get a lot of poor results from my input; I'm obviously not doing something quite right, but with your encouragement I must try again.
Thankyou Dorothy
Researching Campbells around Glasgow, Blantyre and Grays in Blantyre and Ayrshire
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Hi Dorothy & Jean
Jean has obviously got a much clearer head than me! I'm still trying to work it out... Well done Jean =D>
Dorothy: Like all websites with search facilities it takes a bit of practice (and a small investment!) to get the results you want out of Scotlands People's database. It should get easier... there are lots of posts scattered about here on TS dealing with search strategies etc. And SP have their own help pages at : http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... ?r=551&556
Hope you've got a couple of free evenings
best wishes
Lesley
Jean has obviously got a much clearer head than me! I'm still trying to work it out... Well done Jean =D>
Dorothy: Like all websites with search facilities it takes a bit of practice (and a small investment!) to get the results you want out of Scotlands People's database. It should get easier... there are lots of posts scattered about here on TS dealing with search strategies etc. And SP have their own help pages at : http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/conte ... ?r=551&556
Hope you've got a couple of free evenings
best wishes
Lesley
Researching:
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
Midlothian & Fife - Goalen, Lawrie, Ewart, Nimmo, Jamieson, Dick, Ballingall.
Dunbartonshire- Mcnicol, Davy, Guy, McCunn, McKenzie.
Ayrshire- Lyon, Parker, Mitchell, Fraser.
Easter Ross- McCulloch, Smith, Ross, Duff, Rose.
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Hi Dorothy
The fixed point that you have is a marriage in 1918 between John GRAY and Agnes CAMPBELL, and such a marriage does exist in Blythswood registration district in Glasgow between the 23 year old coalminer John GRAY, resident in Blantyre, and Agnes F (outside chance of "T") CAMPBELL, resident in Cambuslang, - it was a Marriage by Declaration, registered in Blythswood in Glasgow City after the issue by the Sheriff Substitute of Lanarkshire of a Warrant relating to this irregular marriage.
The 1918 address of John fairly quickly leads to a 1901 census entry for the household of his parents in Blantyre of ....
Thomas GRAY, 38, Coal Miner, born Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Isabella do, 36, b. Blantyre, Lanarkshire
Annie, aged ??, b. do do
John, aged 5, b. do do
Francis, aged 3, b. do do
Isabella, aged 1 m[onth] (?) do do
(This is 99%+ your family, but needs to be confirmed via examination of the birth register entries of John and his siblings in order to confirm that their mother's maiden name is THOM[P]SON).
Obviously quite possible that such a couple may have had further daughters, but not that many, to be the "Granny Gray" in question !!
Given the amount of info that the Sally Ally were able to provide in connection with the first programme in the current BBC "Who Do You Thing You Are?" second series, I'd be greatly disappointed if they couldn't assist your search!!!
As you comment, however, it could well have been the case that "Granny Gray" only gained that surname via marriage ..............
David
The fixed point that you have is a marriage in 1918 between John GRAY and Agnes CAMPBELL, and such a marriage does exist in Blythswood registration district in Glasgow between the 23 year old coalminer John GRAY, resident in Blantyre, and Agnes F (outside chance of "T") CAMPBELL, resident in Cambuslang, - it was a Marriage by Declaration, registered in Blythswood in Glasgow City after the issue by the Sheriff Substitute of Lanarkshire of a Warrant relating to this irregular marriage.
The 1918 address of John fairly quickly leads to a 1901 census entry for the household of his parents in Blantyre of ....
Thomas GRAY, 38, Coal Miner, born Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Isabella do, 36, b. Blantyre, Lanarkshire
Annie, aged ??, b. do do
John, aged 5, b. do do
Francis, aged 3, b. do do
Isabella, aged 1 m[onth] (?) do do
(This is 99%+ your family, but needs to be confirmed via examination of the birth register entries of John and his siblings in order to confirm that their mother's maiden name is THOM[P]SON).
Obviously quite possible that such a couple may have had further daughters, but not that many, to be the "Granny Gray" in question !!
Given the amount of info that the Sally Ally were able to provide in connection with the first programme in the current BBC "Who Do You Thing You Are?" second series, I'd be greatly disappointed if they couldn't assist your search!!!
As you comment, however, it could well have been the case that "Granny Gray" only gained that surname via marriage ..............
David
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Hello David
Thank you so much for all that information, where (which site) did you find it? Although I realise the 1901 Census ultimately provided the latter part.
I think you're right, this is almost certainly my family, and together with info about there being a Frederick too, I am at last getting somewhere.
It does seem doubtful that my Granny Gray is the baby born in 1901, but I guess she just possibly may be the Francis or Annie? And that she was a Gray from birth and not by marriage, as there don't appear to be any more sons of a likely age that she could have married.
Many grateful thanks for your assistance.
Dorothy
Thank you so much for all that information, where (which site) did you find it? Although I realise the 1901 Census ultimately provided the latter part.
I think you're right, this is almost certainly my family, and together with info about there being a Frederick too, I am at last getting somewhere.
It does seem doubtful that my Granny Gray is the baby born in 1901, but I guess she just possibly may be the Francis or Annie? And that she was a Gray from birth and not by marriage, as there don't appear to be any more sons of a likely age that she could have married.
Many grateful thanks for your assistance.
Dorothy
Researching Campbells around Glasgow, Blantyre and Grays in Blantyre and Ayrshire
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Hi DorothyDorothyG wrote: Hello David
Thank you so much for all that information, where (which site) did you find it? Although I realise the 1901 Census ultimately provided the latter part.
I think you're right, this is almost certainly my family, and together with info about there being a Frederick too, I am at last getting somewhere.
It does seem doubtful that my Granny Gray is the baby born in 1901, but I guess she just possibly may be the Francis or Annie? And that she was a Gray from birth and not by marriage, as there don't appear to be any more sons of a likely age that she could have married.
Many grateful thanks for your assistance.
Dorothy
The marriage record is on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk ........ as is the 1901 census record for the family in Blantyre .............
David
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Ah Lesley I guess you may be right!
Must admit its not a name one sees very often, in which case he could the husband eh? The plot thickens, but at least I've got something to work with now.
Thank you Lesley
Dorothy
And David, just seen your helpful hint - so I will try with Scotlands People again, despite having difficulty before.
Thankyou again.
Dorothy
Must admit its not a name one sees very often, in which case he could the husband eh? The plot thickens, but at least I've got something to work with now.
Thank you Lesley
Dorothy
And David, just seen your helpful hint - so I will try with Scotlands People again, despite having difficulty before.
Thankyou again.
Dorothy
Researching Campbells around Glasgow, Blantyre and Grays in Blantyre and Ayrshire