1851 census help please .....

[ellenavon]

Hi everyone

I wonder if anyone can come up with any ideas to help me find the following family on the 1851 - I have tried everything I can think of so far in terms of wildcards, but no luck.

(Dunderhead here was at Edinburgh yesterday and forgot to look this up! Poor preparation. Oh well its only 400 miles away - I could just pop back! )

OK, the family is:

John McLellan, should be approx 46 yrs, born Alloa, Clackmannanshire, a Distiller or Distiller's Clerk.
Agnes(s) McLellan ms Turner, should be approx 30-34 yrs, born Bathgate, West Lothian
Janet Marshall McLellan, should be 10 yrs b. Bathgate
Archibald Glen McLellan, 9 yrs, b.Bathgate
John Turner McLellan, 7 yrs, b. Bathgate
Alexander Campbell McLellan, 6 yrs, b. Bathgate
Peter McLellan, 3yrs, b. Strathblane, Stirlingshire
Richard McLellan, 1 yr, b. Strathblane, Stirlingshire.

On the 1841, John (a Distiller's Clerk at this point) and Agnes (35yrs and 20 yrs resepectively) are living in Bathgate with young Janet, a female servant, and a Janet Shervals, 30 yrs, and what I presume to be her son, Anthony Shervals, 4yrs, both born out of county.

On the 1861, John, now widowed, is at Burnfoot, Strathblane, still a Distiller, (I presume he was working at Glengoyne Distillery), with Peter, 13 yrs, Richard, 11 yrs, and a female domestic servant, Mary Cameron, from Morven, Argyll. Next door is son Alexander, 19yrs, now a Distillery Manager. (He's done well for himself at 19 )

I would therefore expect to find the family at Strathblane in 1851 - but cannot find them anywhere. I've searched SP for all members of the family. Would expect Richard to be easiest to find because of his age and the least common christian name.

Have done wildcards as broad as M*c*n, Richard, age 0-2, all Scotland, but no sign.

I can't see the family having moved out of Scotland as Richard was born in 1850/51 (can't find a record of his birth either of course!), and they were still in Strathblane in 1861, but............

Any help at all would be much appreciated.

Kind Regards

Ellen.

[JustJean]

Hi ellen

Thought I was on to a great clue but it didn't pan out....

These appear to be the births of Peter and Richard. NOte the surname spelling with a "d". But alas there is nary a Richard anywhere that fits. Unless the misspelling or misindexing (more likely) is so complete as to escape our wildest imaginations!.....I'm guessing they were missed from the 1851............

PETER MCLELLAND
Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 27 AUG 1848 Associate Session, Balfron, Stirling, Scotland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JOHN MCLELLAND Family


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C190611 1742 - 1864 0889482 Film 6901755 Film


RICHARD MCLELLAND
Male
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 24 APR 1850 Associate Session, Balfron, Stirling, Scotland

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: JOHN MCLELLAND Family

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C190611 1742 - 1864 0889482 Film 6901755 Film

Best wishes
Jean

ps at least you have proof of where they were in 1850! It might be worth the effort to scroll through the entire census film for that area to see if they might have been left out of the indexes!

[paddyscar]

The fact that the entire family is missing, probably means a recording or indexing error.

Although I couldn't find them in the location given in the 1841 or the 1861 census, a search in 1851 census for All Districts using m*le*an resulted in the following:

John 46 yr - 16 returns on 1 page

Agnes 30 yr - 11 returns on one page (based on 1841 being 20 yr)

Janet 10 yr - 12 returns on 1 page

Archibald 9 yr - 9 returns on 1 page

John 7 yr - 47 returns on 2 pages

Alexander 6 - 19 returns on 1 page

Peter 3 yr - 6 returns on 1 page

It may be worth the 9 credits to retrieve the above pages to check which incorrect surname [spelling/recording] has the most first names, ages, sexes and locations in common, which coincide with your family.

Hope this helps,

Frances

[ellenavon]

Thank you both so much.

Jean - I didn't think to try a wildcard after the N ! Thanks for those births.

Frances - 9 credits is a drop in the ocean compared to the fortune I've already handed over to SP! I'm off to try it now.

And if necessary I will go through the whole census film, as I really need to establish if Agnes was still alive in 1851.

Many thanks. I'll let you know what I find.

Ellen.

[ellenavon]

Update - no further forward really

Have tried cross matching the hits - nothing matches at all.

Hypothesis so far:

Agnes dies either in or soon after childbirth (Richard, April 1850) and the kids are farmed out to grandparents or relatives till dad sorts himself out.

Have tried looking with the scant info I have on the grandparents - zilch!

Father John's parents I don't have the first idea about, as Richard (bless his cotton socks - not!) didn't know his grandparents names when he notified his dad's death in Feb 1867.

But John was born C.1805 in Alloa, Clackmannanshire.

Can't find Agnes' death so no info on her parents. Maiden name was Turner, and she was born Bathgate, West Lothian c. 1817-21.

Have now got young Janet's marraige in Dec 1859 to Donald McLean in Strathblane. Does not have Agnes noted as deceased - but who knows!

I'll be back.

Regards

Ellen.

[grannysrock]

Ellen

This looks liek them on Ancestry:

Parish Number: 491
Civil parish: Strathblane
County: Stirlingshire
Address: Burn Foot
ED: 2
Page: 1
CSSCT1851_104


line

3 John MA Lillan abt 1806 Alloa, Clackmannan Head Strathblane Stirlingshire Distiller
4 Agnes MA Lillan abt 1821 Bambers, Linlithgow Wife Strathblane Stirlingshire
5 Janet MA Lillan abt 1842 Bathgate, Linlithgow Daughter Strathblane Stirlingshire Scholar
6 Arche MA Lillan abt 1843 Bathgate, Linlithgow Son Strathblane Stirlingshire Scholar
7 John MA Lillan abt 1844 Bathgate, Linlithgow Son Strathblane Stirlingshire Scholar
8 Alexr MA Lillan abt 1846 Bathgate, Linlithgow Son Strathblane Stirlingshire Scholar
9 Richard MA Lillan abt 1849 Strathblane, Stirlingshire Son Strathblane Stirlingshire
10 Peter MA Lillan abt 1850 Strathblane, Stirlingshire Son Strathblane Stirlingshire
11 Hubilla Maitland abt 1826 Campese, Stirlingshire Servant Strathblane Stirlingshire House Servant
12 Janella Smith abt 1836 Eryman, Stirlingshire Servant Strathblane Stirlingshire House Servant

Looking at the rest of the names on the page I see that MA was a very common middle name in the parish ! ( Don't know what they will be transcribed as on SP though )

Hope this helps.
Sally

[AndrewP]

Hi Ellen,

They are there on ScotlandsPeople as Mallien

MALLIEN ... JOHN ... ... ... M ... 45
MALLIEN ... AGNES ... ... . F ... 30
MALLIEN ... JANET ... ... .. F ... 9
MALLIEN ... ARCHIBALD . M ... 8
MALLIEN ... JOHN ... ... ... M ... 7
MALLIEN ... ALEXANDER . M ... 5
MALLIEN ... RICHARD ... . M ... 2
MALLIEN ... PETER ... ... . M ... 1

On looking at the image, the surname appears to me to read Ma' Lillan or Ma' Lillien, but definitely not Mallien. The surname is only written in full once. The rest of the family are Ma' Do (the MacDitto family ).

There is a definite space after the Ma', so you can see how the indexers have taken Ma as a middle name. I would have guessed that a bit of human intervention would have realised that Ma was not going to be the middle name of such a portion of the people in the parish.

It is probably worth a contact form to ScotlandsPeople on two counts - legibility (a full-size photocopy may be clearer), and mis-indexing (although it will take interpretation of the original to work out the correct name to index them by). If you have burned a heap of credits due to the mis-indexing, then a refund may be due to you.

The two servants on the end of the list given above by Sally are by my interpretation both Isabella.

All the best,

AndrewP