2 GROS records with same number? Double the price?

Post by **paddyscar** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:19 am

I did a search on SP for: Male Surname: "SMITH"; Use Male Soundex: Off; Male Forename: "TERENCE*"; Female Surname: ""; Use Female Soundex: Off; Female Forename: "MARY*"; Year From: 1855; Year To: 1870;

There were 4 records on 1 page and I agreed to using 5 credits to view item # 4 based on the spelling of the bride's surname.

#3 1864 SMITH TERENCE MCINALLY MARY ANN HUTCHESONTOWN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/10 0250

#4 1864 SMITH TERENCE MCINNALLY MARY ANN HUTCHESONTOWN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/10 0250

Next thing I knew, my credits had taken a sharp drop!£$!. It seems that selecting #4 had charged my account for both records!

There is a reference on the right hand of the registration, to the name in column 5. As it is, the bride, the bride's father AND the bride's mother all have different spellings of the same surname.

I've posted the record in the Gallery and I've notified SP.

I thought the GROS numbers were unique to individual records?

Frances

Please ty uploading the image again - for some reason the file is not opening - AndrewP.

I've uploaded the file again. The problem is on my end, Andrew, it took forever to upload last night, but went off very quickly this morning. Frances

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... p?pos=-782

url added by Marilyn

ninatoo · Post by **ninatoo** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:48 am

Hi Frances, I have a couple of records which have two entries at SP with the same index number. To my knowledge, I have paid for ONE of them, (maybe I am not as watchful as you) but both entries come up as paid when I am done. I do not think I have been charged for both, but I will be looking for this in the future, in case it IS what happens!

Nina

Post by **AndrewP** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:48 am

Hi Frances,

As far as I know, when two index entries point at one certificate and you look at one of the images, then return to the index, both images should be marked up as paid.

Hence one payment per certificate viewed. If you believe that you have paid twice to view one certificate, then a contact form to SP is the way to go.

All the best,

AndrewP

Post by **paddyscar** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:29 pm

Thanks, Andrew.

Nina - I had a whopping 40 credits in the bank, before I bought 30 new ones to reactivate my account. I seem to go through banked credits very quickly, because it almost seems like they are free credits

I'd just been brought to a screeching halt as I realized I'd dribbled away almost all those banked credits

So, another time I might not have noticed it either. Also it's the first time I've come across two references to the one record. I did compare the two records this morning, and they are exactly the same.

Will keep you posted about SP reply.

Frances

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:40 pm

AndrewP wrote:Hi Frances,

As far as I know, when two index entries point at one certificate and you look at one of the images, then return to the index, both images should be marked up as paid.

Hence one payment per certificate viewed. If you believe that you have paid twice to view one certificate, then a contact form to SP is the way to go.

All the best,

AndrewP

That is indeed the case, but unless you are aware of it, it may not be that obvious. And if SP are taking multiple 5 credits for viewing such an image, as a User Group member, I'd like to know about it.

The same applies for a census entry, where once viewed for one household member, then the screen will show "Paid" for the image for all other household members, as long as they are on the same page; as well as for other households on the same page, although that wouldn't be that common an experience!

David

PS
When buying 50p census photocopies at NRH, if the household stretches over 2 pages, then you still only pay 50p

, but if anyone can suggest a way to automate this process on SP I'd love to hear about it, as the way that it happens at NRH is via human intervention when you collect and pay for the photocopies.

dww

Post by **paddyscar** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:50 pm

David:

I can think of two ways that this could be done. One would be very costly as it would involve re-indexing the database, but the other could be a re-write of the macro or programme at the point of selection of the record for viewing.

I will save everyone from my pitifully long ramble and PM you.

Frances

DavidWW · Post by **DavidWW** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:54 pm

paddyscar wrote:David:

I can think of two ways that this could be done. One would be very costly as it would involve re-indexing the database, but the other could be a re-write of the macro or programme at the point of selection of the record for viewing.

I will save everyone from my pitifully long ramble and PM you.

Frances

Bit if the information isn't there to start with in the original handwritten then typewritten indexes, how can it be a search term? ...........

David

Post by **paddyscar** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:42 pm

Received from SP:

Hello
Thank you for your email.

I'll try to clarify this for you

If the references are the same then it is the same entry, even though it may be indexed under more than one name/spelling of name. This applies to a death record for instance which is indexed under a woman's maiden name and under her married name, both index entries leading to the same entry, and may also apply as here , to a marriage entry where there are 2 spellings of the same name on the entry . ( could also be to reflect a womans maiden name and a previous married name.)
You may be charged 1 credit for each index entry but you should not be charged another 5 credits for the same image as the system knows you have already viewed it.
Thing to remember is that if the GRO ref number ( RD and entry number) is the same then it is the same record, even if it is indexed more than once.( Many entries are indexed more than once- marriages, most female deaths, many 'illegitimate ' births and deaths etc, but you will not be charged 5 credits again for accessing the same record via another index entry.)

I hope this is helpful. I have refunded you 6 credits to allay any concerns you may have had on this occasion.
regards
Eileen
Scotlands People
New Register House
Edinburgh
EH1 3YT
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Montrose Budie · Post by **Montrose Budie** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:17 pm

paddyscar wrote:Received from SP:

Hello
Thank you for your email.

I'll try to clarify this for you

If the references are the same then it is the same entry, even though it may be indexed under more than one name/spelling of name. This applies to a death record for instance which is indexed under a woman's maiden name and under her married name, both index entries leading to the same entry, and may also apply as here , to a marriage entry where there are 2 spellings of the same name on the entry . ( could also be to reflect a womans maiden name and a previous married name.)
You may be charged 1 credit for each index entry but you should not be charged another 5 credits for the same image as the system knows you have already viewed it.
Thing to remember is that if the GRO ref number ( RD and entry number) is the same then it is the same record, even if it is indexed more than once.( Many entries are indexed more than once- marriages, most female deaths, many 'illegitimate ' births and deaths etc, but you will not be charged 5 credits again for accessing the same record via another index entry.)

I hope this is helpful. I have refunded you 6 credits to allay any concerns you may have had on this occasion.
regards
Eileen
Scotlands People
New Register House
Edinburgh
EH1 3YT
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

That's a neat summary of the situation, but only as it applies to the relevant BMD records, and not the census records.

David (disguised as "Montrose Budie"

)