Have the mysteries gone to the grave?..../.

[Anne H]

I’m puzzling over whether or not Patrick Hearty and Helen McDonald could have had an irregular marriage before getting married officially at St. Patrick’s Coatbridge, Marriage 12 Mar 1857: Patrick Hearty - 10 Buchanan’s Row, Coatbridge to Helen McDonald – Steel Street…or is it more likely that the different addresses when they married meant that the children’s biological father was someone else, with the children being named Harty only after Helen married Patrick?
The children’s names don’t help since Patrick’s parents were Michael Hearty & Margaret McSherria/McCheria/Cheria? Helen’s parents were John McDonald & Catherine McAleman/McAleesaw/McAleeran?

Question 1: Is it just wishful thinking or is there a likelihood of an irregular marriage for this couple at that time?

Children’s Births: (no birth certificates for either Patrick, Helen, or son’s John or Thomas)
John Harty born about 1854 possibly in Ireland?

Thomas Harty born somewhere between 1849 and 1856 in Ireland or Coatbridge according to the various images from SP, but I think it more likely he would have been born 1853-1854 in Ireland (a twin to John?)

Mary McDonald (illegitimate) born 22 June 1856 – Steel St., Coatbridge - Informant: Helen McDonald, mother
(On Mary’s death cert 20 Jan 1876 she is shown as Mary Harty with her father being named Patrick Harty, dec’d)

Margaret Hearty and Patrick Hearty born 13 Sept 1858 – Steel Street - Informant: Judith Kearney, lodger *…Patrick was the father of these twins
(a 3rd birth recorded on this page was Mary Ann McInulty born 7 Aug. Informant: Judith Kearney – fellow lodger) *

Question 2: Does anyone know if there was a boarding house on Steel Street at that time or could Judith Kearney/Cairney and the McInulty’s just have been lodging with the Harty’s in a room and kitchen?

Deaths:
John Harty (age 3) died 26 May 1857 – Steel Street - Informant: Patrick Harty, father (signed with an x)
Patrick Hearty (age 35) died 20 Feb 1858 - Steel Street - Informant: Judith Cairney – Cousin also inmate *
Patrick Hearty (age 1 month) died 13 Oct 1858 – Steel Street (Informant: Judith Kearney – Lodger) *
Margaret Hearty (4 mths) died 9 Jan 1859 – Steel Street (Informant: Lana (?) Devlin, intimate acquaintance* – 18 Buchanan St., Coatbridge

Question 3: Informant Judith Cairney – cousin also inmate…what would inmate mean?

Question 4: Informant Lana (could be Jane or James or whatever) Devlin – intimate acquaintance…would intimate acquaintance be another cousin or something?

Question 5: Information sent to me from a distant cousin checking the 1861 Census Index shows the following:
Hearty, Thomas /8/ LKS Old Monkland /652.2/4/19 and Hearty, Mary /4/ LKS Old Monkland /652.2/4/19…no adults were found. What do these numbers mean and surely these two children couldn’t have been on their own…could they?

It goes on with Helen marrying Andrew Tully on 26 Mar. 1861. They had a little girl, Ann or Nancy Tully on 16 Feb 1862. Andrew died between 1862 and 1871 (no death cert). 1871 census shows Helen McDonald or Tully is a widow living with son Thomas Harty, daughter Anne Tully and son John McDonald. This John was born 19 Mar 1870 illegitimately to Ellen Tully m.s. McDonald, but he has his father’s name as James Harty, a railway labourer on both his marriage and death certificates…. so who is James Harty, a brother to Patrick?…can’t find a marriage for Helen and James… very complicated!

I did find Patrick's brother Thomas Hearty who married Eliza Taylor at St. Patrick’s Coatbridge in 1855…he was born in County Armagh, at one point moved to England, had a son John abt 1858, a daughter in Dalziel, Motherwell 23 Sept 1860 and no trace of them since.

So…can anyone help with any of my questions…please?

Regards
AnneH

[AndrewP]

Question 5: Information sent to me from a distant cousin checking the 1861 Census Index shows the following:
Hearty, Thomas /8/ LKS Old Monkland /652.2/4/19 and Hearty, Mary /4/ LKS Old Monkland /652.2/4/19…no adults were found. What do these numbers mean and surely these two children couldn’t have been on their own…could they?

I'll answer the one with the easiest solution. You should seek a copy of the 1861 census report. It is Enumeration District 652/2 (Old Monkland), Book 4, Page 19, going by the detail you have listed. You should go to your local LDS Family History Centre and ask them to get the microfilm in that has that census report on it. For that page to show only two young children makes me wonder if the household is split across two pages; the adults and older children at the bottom of page 18, and the younger children at the top of page 19.

A look at the census report would also show which part of Old Monkland they were in. Was it in Coatbridge, or elsewhere in Old Monkland? I had a look at www.old-maps.co.uk and could not see a Steel Street. To help find it, the description of the registration district covered by book 4 should be on the first page of the book. Also, neighbouring streets should be named on the various pages in that report.

If you have difficulty reaching an LDS FHC, then if you have the patience, the 1861 census is expected to come online later this year (or at worst early next year) at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk and that/these page(s) will be available for a fee.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[Jack]

Hi Anne,

Can't help much, but looks like the children, Thomas 8 & Mary 4, were with Helen McDonald 30 in 1861. No Patrick with them.

Though there is a Patrick 36 & Peter 26 HEARTY in Lesmahagow 1861 - but this is abt 15mls S of the Coatbridge area.

Will get details at some point. Jack

[WilmaM]

I'll try numbers 3 & 4

Question 3: Informant Judith Cairney – cousin also inmate…what would inmate mean?

Inmate usually just means somebody staying at the same place - not a prison as we use the term now.

Question 4: Informant Lana (could be Jane or James or whatever) Devlin – intimate acquaintance…would intimate acquaintance be another cousin or something?

Intimate acquaintance, is just somebody who knows them well , a good friend.

Hope you get all your questions answered in time Anne

[AndrewP]

Hi Anne,

I've had another look at the various online maps and found Steel Street, Coatbridge. There are no buildings named, so no implication of a lodging house, poorhouse or the like.

http://www.nls.uk/digitallibrary/map/to ... ridge.html
Select map VI.12.14 and zoom in slightly right of centre of that map and you will find Steel Street.

By the time of the 1912 map, the street had been renamed Lang Street (same buildings still there). Looking at the current map, the area seems to have been redeveloped and the street has disappeared.

All the best,

Andrew Paterson

[marie]

Anne,

I am also researching Heartys in Lanarkshire. The ones Jack found in Lesmahagow are "my" Heartys! They were brothers Patrick and Peter - also from Armagh. Patrick was born around 1824 and Peter around 1834. Their parents names were Edward (or Patrick) and Ann.

Any connection to your Heartys?

Marie

[Anne H]

Hi Andrew…many thanks for enlightening me as to the 1861 Census records. I was hoping there might be another page. I’ve tried to visit two LDS Centre's…the first one was out in the “boon docks” and when I finally found it there wasn’t a soul to be seen for miles. I finally found another Centre a few weeks ago and was very disappointed to find out they had closed that Research Centre down. I hope to find the new one they now have up and running within the next week or so. (This time, I’ll call ahead to make sure).

Many thanks also for the old maps site, it may not have Steel Street but I did see many other place names I recognized, and now I also know where to find the current post codes…an extra bonus! I did find Steel Street on the other site you gave me and I think it might have been in the area over by St. Augustine’s School (before it was knocked down). It’s great to have an idea of where they lived.

Hi Wilma…again, thanks for the info. A prison did cross my mind, but thought also it might have been a boarding house or poorhouse, but as Andrew pointed out it was neither. I also thought the “intimate acquaintance” might have been a close friend, but I think I was hoping for another cousin that might lead to another clue in the mystery of the Hearty’s.

Hi Jack…many thanks for looking and it is a big help. I’m glad to see the children were with Helen McDonald but I’m surprised she wasn’t known as Helen Tully since she had only married Andrew Tully on 26 Mar 1861, a week or so before the Census was taken, I think. You won’t find Patrick since he died in 1858, therefore the Patrick you found in Lesmahagow wouldn’t have been him but maybe there might be a connection with him and Peter that I haven’t yet found. If you do come across them, that would be great, but please don’t go to any trouble…I’m sure you have plenty of your own to find.

Hi Marie…Nice to hear someone else is researching the Hearty’s and I hope you’re having better luck with them than I’m having. You never know though…I always tend to think when people have the same name and are from the same place there might just be a connection somewhere. The only information I have on the earlier Hearty’s is what I mentioned in my post…but I keep hoping.

By the way, I have many, many records that I pulled on SP where I couldn’t find a connection to my various family names, about 50-60 of them are for the name Hearty or Harty (I search for both since the name early on seemed to change from one record to another), anyway, if there’s a Hearty you can’t find let me know…I may very well have a record of them here.

Again, my sincere thanks to all of you for your very helpful information…it really is much appreciated.

Regards,
AnneH

[Jack]

Hi Anne,

It was much later on when i realised that you'd said father Patrick HEARTY had died - i should read things properly; and being half-asleep is no excuse!
By the way, i can't see an Andrew TULLY around the area in 1861, nor a James HARTY.
--

Hi Marie, if you don't yet have Patrick & Peter HEARTY in 1861 Lesmahagow, then please just say.

Jack

[Anne H]

Hi Jack,

Being half asleep is a very good excuse! As to Andrew Tully...maybe he was out working. James Hearty...well, I've a feeling I'll never find out who he actually was.

Again, many thanks for looking

Regards,
AnneH

[Jack]

Hi Anne,

Some censuses - note Helen was as unmarried.
--
1861 cens 652-2 Ed 4 p 19 (Coatbridge)
Inglis' Land, Bank St.
Helen McDONALD, head, unmarried, 30, ---- b Ireland
Thomas HEARTY, son, 8, -------- b Old Monkland, LKS
Mary HEARTY, daur, 4, --------- b Old Monkland, LKS
--
1861 cens 639 Ed 1 p 35 (Dalziel)
Baillie's Back Land, Motherwell.
Thomas HEARTY, head, marr, 31, iron puddler, b Ireland
Elizabeth HEARTY, wife, 22, ------- b Ireland
John HEARTY, son, 3, -------- b England
Margaret HEARTY, daur, 7mos, -- b Dalziel, LKS
Catherine KILCALAN, boarder, widow, 80, ---- b Ireland
--
I hope you don't mind me dropping Marie's family in here - just in case you both find a connection in future.

1861 cens 649 Ed 3 p 21 (Lesmahagow)
Kirkmuirhill Village.
With a David Pollock 48 ploughman born Dalserf & wife Helen b Lesmahagow.
Patrick HEARTY, lodger, u/m 36, agricultural labourer, b Ireland
Peter HEARTY, lodger, u/m 26, agricultural labourer, b Ireland
--
Jack