Address? .....

[scooter]

A quickie to ask if anyone can make out the address of David Wishart on this page from the 1851 Census?

http://talkingscot.com/gallery/displayi ... ?pos=-1083

Thanks in advance,

Scott

[Jack]

Hi Scott,
My guess - 2 St. James's pl. ie Place.
The enumerator accidentally wrote James Rankin in the address column.
Jack
-
Edited - i should've, as David noticed, typed pl. Now amended

[DavidWW]

Two WISH[A/E]RT new posts in 24 hours

Agreed with Jack re 2 St James's pl. [the lower case "p" deliberate!]

I was fooled for a few seconds by the wrong entry in the address column of the name of James RANKIN in Schedule 13, i.e. the address for the first household on the page, schedule 12, is "dittoed" all the way down the page.

David

[scooter]

Thanks Jack & David, I was also initially led astray by the inclusion of Mr Rankin further down the page.

David, yes, I've had a spare hour so I thought I'd try and tie up a few 'loose ends' on the Wisha(e)rt front! All sorted now thanks to the superstars on the forum.

Thanks again,

Scott

[paddyscar]

Being the 'odd-one-out', I read it as12 St. James pl. followed by 13 St. James pl.

Frances

[Jack]

Hi Frances,
You're right on those nos. 12, 13 etc. being there!
These will be the house schedule numbers in Enumeration District 37.
Whereas 2 is the house number in St. James's Place.
I think i've got that right.
Jack

[paddyscar]

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Jack.

These will be the house schedule numbers in Enumeration District 37.

Would the 'house schedule numbers' be the equivalent of separate living quarters at the same address, along the lines of a bed-sit or apartment?

Frances

[Jack]

Hi Frances,
Yes, several families in their own room(s) at the same address.
A tenement building can be, as you know, several storeys high and often contains several flats on each "landing".
So each one would have a schedule to be filled in by the household head.
(to include everyone that were living inside it on census night)
--
I was recently reading a 1967 HMSO housing report publication "Scotland's Older Houses".
A bit of the history of buildings in general is at the beginning.
The Registrar General of Scotland was deploring the imposition of the English definition of a house in the 1861 census,
as producing completely meaningless statistics for Scotland.

Scotland built more substantial housing enabling them to rise to six or more stories high.
Whereas English houses couldn't be run up to any height, and were spread over a greater breadth.
On the definition of the meaning of "House" in Scotland.

"...These Flat Houses each have their own independant door...
It is quite true that the door enters upon a stair which is common to all...,
but the stair is merely, as it were, an extension of the street upwards..."

So each flat in a tenement building is classified as a house - the same as a detached villa.
And of course a semi-detached would be two houses.
But if these detached or semis were divided into flats, then each one would be treated as a separate house.
Many old churches and industrial buildings are now converted to individual flats.
--
By the way the 1861 report says that 227,000 families were living in one roomed dwellings (over one in three)
and a further 247,000 lived in two room dwellings.
So about 72% of all Scottish families were living in houses of no more than two rooms.

The 1871 census report mentions that 23% of Glasgow, 20% of Edinburgh famillies kept boarders or lodgers.
Interesting to read that 14% of one roomed families kept ludgers...!
Telling an errant child to go to their room is (for most) a modern day phrase....
--
Jack
ps, there are very informative explanations of all the censuses on the TS Census tab at the top of the page.
--

[Russell]

Jack

As usual you have managed to squeeze into a brief factual description a whole lot more

1. A source book to check your facts and encourage others to read.
2. A bit of history.
3. A comparitive description of social conditions.
4. A major point of difference between English and Scottish Law.

Great stuff!
This proves that TalkingScot offers more than just family information.

Russell

[DavidWW]

And here's more

Boarders vs. lodgers, but note that not every enumerator strictly followed the guidelines.

Each household, - see Jack's explanation, - was given a separate form, to be completed by the Head of Household. If there were any "boarders" in the household, they were considered part of it, and enumerated accordingly.

A "lodger", however was regarded as a separate "Occupier" and should, strictly speaking, have been given a separate schedule and enumerated as a distinct and separate Household.

But how to differentiate between a boarder and a lodger? Quite simply, if someone took their meals with the family, they should have been classified as a boarder, but if they made their own arrangements, then they should have been classified as a lodger

But remember that not every enumerator was so conscientious

And then there's the complication of a lodger or boarder being related to the Head of Household, - some Heads of Household would show this, and the enumerator transcribe it as shown; but others would follow the rules laid out in the advice to Heads of Household on the back of the Schedule and show them as "lodger" or "boarder" despite the relationship .............

And you thought that censuses were simple

David