1798 St Cyrus, Kincardineshire Census help/advise request

gzmcwherter · Post by **gzmcwherter** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:56 am

I have a major brick wall with a Robert Allan marrying an Elizabeth Lindsay in this time frame. The St Cyrus marriage OPRs for 1796-1801 appear to be missing (per LDS library site), but I do have an OPR entry for the birth & baptism of a son in 1801: "April 26th Robert Allan & Elizabeth Lindsay in the parish of Craig had a Son (born 10th Inst.) baptized, named John"

"The Scottish Family Tree Detective" p. 157 mentions a 1798 census of ALL the inhabitants (not just head of household!) being included as part of the kirk session minutes. The "Statistical Account" for the parish of St Cyrus gives a population figure of 1763 for the year 1792, so I am hoping that this census would help me to identify family for Robert and Elizabeth.

I checked the LDS library site and the session minutes for St Cyrus do not appear to have been microfilmed. Also struck out with Google books.
Trying to obtain details of NAS CH2/590/1 repeatedly times out.

Does anyone know if this census has been indexed and/or published, perhaps by a journal or local history society? (Once I can track down some publication I'm hoping to arrange for an inter-library loan).

Thanks for any ideas or suggestions.

Gina

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:24 am

Hi Gina
Accordign to GROS, these are the extant OPR records for St Cyrus

267. ST. CYRUS
267/1 B 1696-1820 M 1696-1820 D 1783-90
267/2 B - M 1696-1723 D -
267/3 B - M 1723-76 D -
267/4 B 1820-54 M 1820-54 D -

Best wishes
Lesley

momat · Post by **momat** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:24 am

Hi Gina,
The IGI has the following submissions for Robert and Elizabeth.

Robert Allan Pedigree
Male Family

Event(s):
Birth:
1775 , , Scotland
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: Elizabeth Lindsey Family
Marriage:
1800 , , Scotland

Elizabeth Lindsey Pedigree
Female Family

Event(s):
Birth:
1780 , , Scotland
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: Robert Allan Family
Marriage:
1800 , , Scotland

And the record of their Children .
Results for: Birth/Christening, British Isles
Father: Robert Allen, Mother: Elizabeth Lyndsay
Exact Spelling: Off
[refine search]
Prepare selected records for download

International Genealogical Index / British Isles - 12
Select records to download - (50 maximum)
1. BETTY ALLAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 20 JUN 1803
2. BETTY ALLAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 25 JUN 1803 Ruthven, Angus, Scotland
3. MARY BATHGATE ALLAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 11 APR 1807
4. MARY BATHGATE ALLAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 19 APR 1807 Ruthven, Angus, Scotland
5. ROBERT ALLAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 26 JUL 1805
6. ROBERT ALLAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 04 AUG 1805 Ruthven, Angus, Scotland
7. Sarah Allan - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 01 NOV 1674 Kirkcaldy, Fife, Scotland
8. Robert Allan - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 1805 Of, Dundee, Angus, Scotland
9. Sarah Allan - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 01 NOV 1674 Kirkcaldy, Fife, Scotland
10. SARAH ALLAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 01 NOV 1674 Kirkcaldy, Fife, Scotland
11. JOHN ALLAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 10 APR 1801
12. JOHN ALLAN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 26 APR 1801 Saint Cyrus, Kincardine, Scotland

Archiver · Post by **Archiver** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:04 pm

The NAS catalogue has been causing me problems too - it times out on everything! However, today it seems to be working and this is what they say about CH2/590/1:

CH2/590 Ecclesgreig (St. Cyrus) Kirk Session
Ref No: CH2/590/1
Repository: National Archives of Scotland
Title: Minutes 1781-1862, Minutes 1864-1954
Date: 1781-1954
Description: (Includes list of inhabitants in Parish of Ecclesgreig or St Cyrus, 250?? 1798 - 11 April 1799, pp.27-42)
Access Status: Open
Access Conditions: This record has been digitally imaged and will not be produced for readers. The digital images may be seen in the NAS Search Rooms on the 'Virtual Volumes' system.

So, if you can make it to Edinburgh you should be able to view it!

gzmcwherter · Post by **gzmcwherter** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:11 am

Lesley,
I searched the IGI with the batch number from Hugh Wallis' site for marriages in St Cyrus for 1781-1826 (M112674). The years 1797-1801 came up with no entries. I've wondered if there was a missing volume or just missing pages. I wish I could just scroll through SP and check to see if those years are really there or not.

Maureen,
Yes, I have those. I've downloaded all of the children's records from SP.

Archiver,
I checked the NAS catalog today and of course it worked. Must have been slowed down by all the weekend researches. (Like me! ). Unfortunately, a trip to Edinburgh and the NAS Search Rooms is not possible for me since I live in California.

I forgot to mention in my post that the Dundee Howff burial database has the following info:

Name: Allan, Robert
Burial Date: 16.9.1838
Age at Death: 59
Birthplace: Parish of Lunan
Occupation: Coachman
Cause of Death: Inflamtion of Lungs
Other Cemetery: New Howff

Name: Lindsay, Elizabeth
Burial Date: 9 Jan 1842
Age at Death: 65
Birthplace: Parish of St Cyrus,Kincard/s
Cause of Death: Old Age
Relationship: Widow of Robert Allan, [Coachman]

This shows that Elizabeth was from St. Cyrus. The baptismal record for son John Allan shows him born in Craig parish, Angus but baptized in St. Cyrus in 1801. This makes me think she still had family in the area... my hope was that she (and hopefully Robert) would be listed in the census from 1798-1799.

Thank you all very much for your input.

Gina

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:09 am

Hi Gina
If as Archiver has found, these are the pages:

Description: (Includes list of inhabitants in Parish of Ecclesgreig or St Cyrus, 250?? 1798 - 11 April 1799, pp.27-42)

You could contact NAS and ask for an estiimate for a copy of those pages to be sent to you. Cost should be £2.50 per 5 pages. I make that £15 if they are being generous, £20 if not! OK, its a lot to spend on something which may not have your folk in it- but its cheaper than a train fare from lots of places in Scotland to Edinburgh!! And who knows who else you may find on there....
Certianly one to consider - depends how deperate you are!

I searched the IGI with the batch number from Hugh Wallis' site for marriages in St Cyrus for 1781-1826 (M112674). The years 1797-1801 came up with no entries. I've wondered if there was a missing volume or just missing pages. I wish I could just scroll through SP and check to see if those years are really there or not.

There are a couple of publications which list what OPR years are missing. (names escape me right now...

) so it may be possible to establish the position with that one.

Best wishes
Lesley

JustJean · Post by **JustJean** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:32 pm

The Key to the Parochial Reigsters of Scotland by Bloxham has this to say about the condition of original registers for the Parish of St. Cyrus (267):

QUOTE

Births: Three pages of irregular entries 1781-1805 are recorded after 1798. Mothers' names are not recorded until about 1782

Marriages: Prior to Nov 1775, the entries are intermixed with those of births. After Nov 1775 entries of contracts only. No entries Aug 1796-July 1801. There is also an intermixed record of proclamations 1696-1776.

Deaths: (Burials.)

ENDQUOTE

Best wishes
Jean

LesleyB · Post by **LesleyB** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:06 pm

Thanks Jean!
Bloxham!!!!

Must have been having a mental blox...

The other one is: "Detailed list of OPRs for Scotland" printed by Murray & Gibb, Edinburgh 1872 (that is not a typo!! A local library has this one!)

Best wishes
Lesley

ROY M · Post by **ROY M** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:38 am

Hi Gina
I know your post is a couple of months old, but I recently got a copy of CH2/590/1 for my own research. It is actually a list of inhabitants drawn up between 25th October 1798 and 11th April 1799. I've had a look for you and there is NO Robert Allan with a spouse Elizabeth Lindsay listed. If you want anything else checked drop me a note.

ROY M · Post by **ROY M** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:30 pm

Hi Gina,
Having read your post again I realised that they might not have been married at the time this list was compiled, so I've had another look.

There is one Elizabeth Lindsay on page 29 of the list at a place in the parish called Burnhead.

William Lindsay-----S. Fisher
Catherine Scott----Wife
Elizabeth Lindsay
Mary Lindsay
Helen Lindsay
Diana Lindsay

Elizabeth, Mary, Helen and Diana are shown grouped as children.

There is one Robert Allan on page 32 of the list at a place in the parish called Tanglehall.

William Allan----Servant to R. Gibson
Ann Nicol--------Wife
James Davidson--Wifes Son
John Allan x
Robert Allan x
Ann Crammond--Wifes Mother-Poor-Age78

John and Robert are shown grouped as children and there are small crosses after their names in the entry.

Hope this of some help.